RBCII The Day After!!!

One of the concerns even with the new hatch cover is the surrounding seal rubber gasket. It is a straight formed piece of material. That being said , when you install the gasket on the underside of the cover it tends to kink in the areas with the most curvature. This lends to creating a void in the seal.  A formed gasket is the answer to this. Surf launching with the new cover does not concern me as much as the water drains rapidly enough to not take on a considerable amount of water.

  Were you both on top of Joes kayak at some point in time. For how long? Please correct me if Im off base here Mike or Joe. Following the manufactures specifications are paramount.

I'm sure we did exceed the manufactures specs... at the moment we were swapping and were both on his ride...I'd say I weigh 190 joe??? gear??? no pool noodles...  and water was coming through the hatch...probably time line was 10-15 min. guessing...but it was way to lonnnngggg

  Were you both on top of Joes kayak at some point in time. For how long? Please correct me if Im off base here Mike or Joe. Following the manufactures specifications are paramount.

I'm sure we did exceed the manufactures specs... at the moment we were swapping and were both on his ride...I'd say I weigh 190 joe??? gear??? no pool noodles...  and water was coming through the hatch...probably time line was 10-15 min. guessing...but it was way to lonnnngggg

I have to wonder ... what were you guys doing on the same kayak for 10-15 minutes?  How were you seated?

-Allen

  Were you both on top of Joes kayak at some point in time. For how long? Please correct me if Im off base here Mike or Joe. Following the manufactures specifications are paramount.

I'm sure we did exceed the manufactures specs... at the moment we were swapping and were both on his ride...I'd say I weigh 190 joe??? gear??? no pool noodles...  and water was coming through the hatch...probably time line was 10-15 min. guessing...but it was way to lonnnngggg

I have to wonder ... what were you guys doing on the same kayak for 10-15 minutes?  How were you seated?

-Allen

  Side to side BSing on how to  "do it"...(with out yard selling) with some swell...had I known that that would cause water to come into the hull would never have done it........everything always looks different after the fact...  So from what I've read joes ride had a known leakage problem that I was unaware of and he was to I believe???  and with hind sight the proper way to swap rides would've meant jumping in and self rescueing... on each others yak...but at the time...that's what we did...so in future peeps should do the other way around and we should also... This Happend to us Don't LET it HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

Things are getting clearer now.  I think you guys overloaded the kayak and used it in a manner that it shouldn't be used in.  Lesson learned the hard way.  Thanks for sharing your story for all of us to learn from.

-Allen

I think you guys overloaded the kayak and used it in a manner that it shouldn't be used in.  Lesson learned the hard way.  Thanks for sharing your story for all of us to learn from.

-Allen

Exactly!!! Glad we could share it!!! Thanks for all comments I'm sure people have gained a lot of knowlege from this thread I know I have!!!

I think the lesson we can most take from this is that the hatches on kayaks are not water proof while submerged. And even if you can seal them up to make them water proof initially.....you can't rely on them staying that way with use & over time. I always expect mine to leak a little and open up my center hatch to "check the bilge" while I'm OTW just in case. Thanks for sharing your story Sledge & BB. jim

If ravensblack's trident took on close to a gallon of water in 30 seconds, it seems like there might still be a problem with the seal on those rod-pod hatch covers. I think further testing is merited before we sweep this one under the rug. This is the second rescue(alshobieoutback @GS3) caused by leaky rod-pod hatch covers. Leaky hatch covers can be a problem in many situations. Not just when the boat is loaded beyond manufacturers specs. Futhermore, I don't know the load limit on the t-13 but if sledge is 190 and Joe is about 150? That makes 340lbs. My boat is rated 375lbs. Kayaks have a way of finding themselves in situations that are not recommended by the manufacturer. I believe that it is pretty damn important
that hatch covers don't leak like sieves.

If you will read back I didn't say it took on gallons, I said a cup or two under extreme overloading. It would be interesting to know all manufactures description of just what they test the boats in concerning conditions. I'm not really sure about a surf launch through a series of waves is something that is recommended.

kayakjack,  I don't think anyone is sweeping this under the rug.  If anything, it has been a very open conversation in the quest for knowledge.

Saltydog hit the nail on the head ... hatches on kayaks are not water proof while submerged.

Weight ratings are under normal distributed loads.  Having 2 guys sitting side to side certainly put the kayak on edge lowering one side of the hatch under the water line.  (Is it just me or were you guys glad sledge and joe weren't sitting nut to butt?).  And don't forget, the kayak also had drill holes in it where the FF was removed.  And there was some swell too.  10-15 minutes is a long time to have a hatch or drill holes submerged.

-Allen

Fielding these types of inquiries for nearly 20 years, I think it needs to be stated that "our" concerns about the surf only impact a very small fraction of the market of kayak anglers.  That said, the amount of leakage by having a wave crash down is probably an afterthought for most manufacturers.  Looking at the first "fishing" kayaks, hatch covers havn't really come a long way since Prisms and Scuppers.  The design for gear storage has though.
 
Once, while consulting for a kayak maker, I was told by the designers "This boat wasn't meant for the open ocean".  Once it hit the stores....anglers immediately took it offshore where it became extremely popular.  That model has been marketed by the manufacturer for ocean fishing ever since.  And like many, seen its share of rescues. 

I think it's fair to say (my opinion anyway) the R&D of fishing kayaks is too often done right here (online and at the beach) with manufacturer pro-staff and community contributions (the first purchasers).  Recommending thousands of kayaks to as many anglers over the years, I'm aware of that and until recently, never recommended new models until they had at least a year on the water to work out the bugs and I got a chance to make my own assessment.  I understand it too even if I don't like the position, it's business.   

Back in the day, some manufacturers grew a chip on their shoulder when I wouldn't promote (advertise) their new boats fresh out of the molds, even as I ran their ads.  One company head looking for an ad once yelled at me and thought a check would get exposure for their new model.  Fat chance, I told him it didn't work that way.  For every angler with a similar position to mine, there are a hundred anglers that will promote an unproven boat for the kayak and a t-shirt. 
The pro-staffers here are doing a fine job of furthering their brands. 

have to chime in here on the rod pod.  the old cover was flexible, so lots of pressure in the middle raised up the top and bottom edge.  It is pretty easy to see how the seal would break.

the new rigid pod if properly seated, almost makes that sucking sound kind of seal.  I suck at surf launching so have taken MANY waves over the bow and had my cockpit completely swamped yet find little to no water in the hull.  Until I modified it, my transducer in the scupper essentially left me with one scupper, and water still did not enter the hull.  I have done this with lots of gear, loads of fish, and my body weight anywhere from 285 to 250.

the key is properly seated, as often I have found it is just kind of on, and I have to push it down with some force to get the good seal.

I think the new rod pod is quite an improvement over the old

(Is it just me or were you guys glad sledge and Joe weren't sitting nut to butt?).  -Allen

(Is it just me or were you guys glad sledge and Joe weren't sitting nut to butt?).  -Allen

And Lisa Too...

But seriously we swapped twice...first time was easy...second time was not...hence the longer time sitting next to each other...to bad Joe's camera wasn't water proof because he was filming the whole thing... and as it was all going down I was telling him to film it!!!  I'm really glad there's a big discussion on manufacturing "Concerns" because "we" are the ones OTW when the $hit happens and having a very reliable design leads to continued fishing/SALES!!!

I'm really glad there's a big discussion on manufacturing "Concerns" because "we" are the ones OTW when the $hit happens and having a very reliable design leads to continued fishing/SALES!!!

Keep the feedback coming on products.  We do listen.  I alerted Ocean Kayak to rod pod issues back in May '09.  I was told it was the first feedback they got on it.  I then pointed them to a string of threads on NWKA explaining the issues.  I kept on them and like to think it led to the newer rod pod hatches.

-Allen

Fielding these types of inquiries for nearly 20 years, I think it needs to be stated that "our" concerns about the surf only impact a very small fraction of the market of kayak anglers.   

Of the 4 Tridents that I personally know of that sank, they were all offshore not in the surf. You can take waves over the side on a lake. It had nothing to do with surf launching. Scary design flaw. 

Glad you guys are OK. Great, now I have to ditch the waders.