Please limit and or not Harvest Abalone from sonoma coast

Im wondering if the depths of the abalone concentration that was killed off was shallow compared to deeper.

I wondered this too. I recall about 10 years back reading how the population was thick in anything over 45-50ft. My guess is that the deeper shellfish would not have been effected but that's just my guess. It would be nice to know for sure.
Nothing really to be done until the bloom passes though.
heartbreaking photos for sure.

What I would like to see is stepped up enforcement for the near future. That, is something we can do as a community. Call and report illegal activity to cal-tip. Get as much info as possible, but if there is only one item you can report, make it the plate number of their vehicle. A lot of us have GoPros and if footage of an illegal act is caught on video, by all means, disclose that in your report as well. I hope this is over quickly, and conditions are right for a speedy recovery, I really wanted to start diving with my son next year, and would hate to see another opportunity for our kids taken away. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed - there are these folks in the MendoZone:

http://www.mendoabwatch.com/

Mendocino Abalone Watch

The Mendocino Abalone Watch is a volunteer citizens' nonprofit association established to provide additional "eyes and ears" for the California Department of Fish & Game. MAW's purpose is to enhance regulatory enforcement and protection of the abalone resource along the Mendocino Coast. MAW has been designated a Special Project of the Mendocino Endowment for Environmental Advocacy.

Functions:

• Observe diving activity, emphasizing Fort Bragg and Mendocino areas

• Report suspicious taking of abalone to DFG wardens

• Record observations for use by DFG

• Be visible at key locations to discourage or deter poachers

• Be visible so as to encourage compliance with the law

• Offer diver education about regulations and penalties

• Watch for unsafe diving situations and alert divers or others

• Insure fair-handed enforcement by DFG

Volunteers work in pairs, once a month in a three-hour weekday or weekend shift, equipped with highly-visible jackets, caps, vehicle signage, binoculars, camera or video-recorder, and cell phone or two-way radio.



Volunteers are trained by DFG in terms of forms of suspicious taking, methods of observing/recording/reporting, and applicable regulations. Volunteers are selected based on equanimity, intelligence, aptitude, completed training and lack of conflict of interest. All volunteers certify in writing that they participate without a conflict of interest and in support of resource regulation by DFG.

MAW was formed by five individuals from diverse backgrounds - defense attorney, professional diving instructor, hair stylist, English teacher, and landscaper. Some had diving experience, others did not. They were brought together out of a desire to do something beyond being upset about abalone poaching.

Mendocino Abalone Watch

Abalone info: http://www.mendoabwatch.com/abalone.html
CDFG Abalone Info: http://www.mendoabwatch.com/reg.html
Resources: http://www.mendoabwatch.com/resources.html
Images: http://www.mendoabwatch.com/images.html
Weather and Tide Links: http://www.mendoabwatch.com/weather.html

Contact MAW:
[email protected]

Hey all,

guess I'll chime in here. Firstly, I applaud Matt's efforts here. He' doing whatever he can to encourage us to begin the process of easing pressure on a now severely stressed abalone population, maybe even decimated. The personal attacks are BS. Trophy sized abalone are at the END of their reproductive cycle. The are essentially old people- done with spawining. You talk in suppositions and have spouted off about this with no knowledge of fact(this is for you PEDXING).

It's time for us to unite and quit railing on someone who's trying to help, which is a might bit more than the naysayers who've posted so far. Nice work! As for you Craig,
you are a legend when it comes to negativity and going off on people.  As I recall, you took several ten inch abs from that very same area and posted it on the internet for the world to see.  Hmm- you might want to consider exploring the bounds of your hypocrisy. I recall going a couple of rounds with you on this very subject a couple of years ago. Ever gonna learn? SRJ

guess I'll chime in here. Firstly, I applaud Matt's efforts here. He' doing whatever he can to encourage us to begin the process of easing pressure on a now severely stressed abalone population, maybe even decimated. The personal attacks as BS. Trophy sized abalone are at the END of their reproductive cycle. The are essentially old people- done with spawining. You talk in suppositions and have spouted off about this with no knowledge of fact(this is for you PEDXING).

It's time for us to unite and quit railing on someone who's trying to help, which is a might bit more than the naysayers who've posted so far. Nice work! As for you Craig,
you are a legend when it comes to negativity and going off on people.  As I recall, you took several ten inch abs from that very same area and posted it on the internet for the world to see.  Hmm- you might want to consider exploring the bounds of your hypocrisy. I recall going a couple of rounds with you on this very subject a couple of years ago. Ever gonna learn? SRJ

Hey all,

guess I'll chime in here... Trophy sized abalone are at the END of their reproductive cycle. The are essentially old people- done with spawining. You talk in suppositions and have spouted off about this with no knowledge of fact(this is for you PEDXING).

Hi there,

Can you point to scientific documents that back up your claim that the "trophy" abalone are at the end of their reproductive cycle? 

Everything I've read so far supports PEDXING's statement that the bigger the abalone, the more eggs and sperm they transmit.  Just curious as to where you found your data.

Thanks,
Nate

 We're all up in arms over this. What happens sucks. Some people don't like other people and thats fine but keep the personal attacks to yourself. Debate the facts and merits not each other.

Thanks.

The sexes are separate and can be distinguished in individuals as small as one inch when the gonads begin to develop. The eggs or sperm are released through the pores with the respiratory current. This is known as broadcast spawning. A 1.5 inch abalone may spawn 10,000 eggs or more at a time, while an 8 inch abalone may spawn 11 million or more. Spawning may be controlled by the water temperature or length of the day. The presence of eggs and sperm in the water may stimulate other abalone to spawn, thus increasing the chances of fertilization.

TBone and Spinal tap: Here are some studies and facts. Tbone you posted a paragraph that begins with big abs=lotsa eggs. That is true, to a point. As I said before, Ten inch abs are old and sterile, vast majority. Read below. I'll be happy to convert the metrics. a 215 MM ab is about 8 1/2 inches. 8 Inches is their PEAK after that they decline. See below about the 260 mm abalone which was about 10 1/4 inches- she had 80% dead eggs. FECUNDITY means reproductive ability.

 Was not talking out my butt. Here it is in black and white. Giant abs are far, far into their sterile and non reproductive years, plain and simple. There's a ton more out there to support this, just start searching. Unfortunately, you fell prey to common folklore. Someone told you and they told someone else and suddenly it's fact, when in fact, it is not.

ABSTRACT The fecundity of wild red abalone. Haliotis rufescens, was examined during four reproductive seasons (2000-2003) in northern California. A broad size range of abalone were sampled (n = 425) from Van Damme State Park and the Point Arena area. Sexual maturity was defined as the presence of sperm or mature oocytes 170-190 [micro]m in diameter, with a jelly coat, detached from the trabeculae in the gonad. Histologic examination revealed that abalone <50 mm in shell length had not yet sexually differentiated and that 50% of the females from 105-130 mm and the males 75-95 mm had mature gametes while all larger animals were mature. Fecundity, as measured by an estimate of the number of mature eggs per female (X), increased exponentially with increasing shell length (Y) until the peak at 215 mm in shell length after which mature egg number began to decline. The largest female 260 mm (10.24 inches) had >80% necrotic eggs. The data were fit to a non linear Gaussian curve with 3 parameters;

[MATHEMATICAL EXPRESSION NOT REPRODUCIBLE IN ASCII.]

the maximum productivity (A = 2,850,000 eggs [y.sup.-1]), size at maximum productivity ([micro] = 215 mm), and standard deviation ([sigma] = 38 mm) of the distribution of maximum productivity versus size. We conclude that whereas large females in excess of 215 mm in shell length undergo some senescence (decline in egg production), these females could potentially contribute as much to reproduction as the mid-size (130-215 mm) females. This suggests that management strategies that protect large females such as marine protected areas or de facto reserves will help maintain egg production and that more work is needed to better understand the relationship between female size and egg necrosis.

WOW!

It was all good until the final paragraph.  While egg production does decline, it is still not insignificant.

-Allen

the maximum productivity (A = 2,850,000 eggs [y.sup.-1]), size at maximum productivity ([micro] = 215 mm), and standard deviation ([sigma] = 38 mm) of the distribution of maximum productivity versus size. We conclude that whereas large females in excess of 215 mm in shell length undergo some senescence (decline in egg production), these females could potentially contribute as much to reproduction as the mid-size (130-215 mm) females. This suggests that management strategies that protect large females such as marine protected areas or de facto reserves will help maintain egg production and that more work is needed to better understand the relationship between female size and egg necrosis.

TBone and Spinal tap: Here are some studies and facts. Tbone you posted a paragraph that begins with big abs=lotsa eggs. That is true, to a point. As I said before, Ten inch abs are old and sterile, vast majority. Read below. I'll be happy to convert the metrics. a 215 MM ab is about 8 1/2 inches. 8 Inches is their PEAK after that they decline. See below about the 260 mm abalone which was about 10 1/4 inches- she had 80% dead eggs. FECUNDITY means reproductive ability.

 Was not talking out my butt. Here it is in black and white. Giant abs are far, far into their sterile and non reproductive years, plain and simple. There's a ton more out there to support this, just start searching.  Unfortunately, you fell prey to common folklore. Someone told you and they told someone else and suddenly it's fact, when in fact, it is not.

ABSTRACT The fecundity of wild red abalone. Haliotis rufescens, was examined during four reproductive seasons (2000-2003) in northern California. A broad size range of abalone were sampled (n = 425) from Van Damme State Park and the Point Arena area. Sexual maturity was defined as the presence of sperm or mature oocytes 170-190 [micro]m in diameter, with a jelly coat, detached from the trabeculae in the gonad. Histologic examination revealed that abalone <50 mm in shell length had not yet sexually differentiated and that 50% of the females from 105-130 mm and the males 75-95 mm had mature gametes while all larger animals were mature. Fecundity, as measured by an estimate of the number of mature eggs per female (X), increased exponentially with increasing shell length (Y) until the peak at 215 mm in shell length after which mature egg number began to decline. The largest female 260 mm (10.24 inches) had >80% necrotic eggs. The data were fit to a non linear Gaussian curve with 3 parameters;

[MATHEMATICAL EXPRESSION NOT REPRODUCIBLE IN ASCII.]

the maximum productivity (A = 2,850,000 eggs [y.sup.-1]), size at maximum productivity ([micro] = 215 mm), and standard deviation ([sigma] = 38 mm) of the distribution of maximum productivity versus size. We conclude that whereas large females in excess of 215 mm in shell length undergo some senescence (decline in egg production), these females could potentially contribute as much to reproduction as the mid-size (130-215 mm) females. This suggests that management strategies that protect large females such as marine protected areas or de facto reserves will help maintain egg production and that more work is needed to better understand the relationship between female size and egg necrosis.

Thanks SRJ,

But what you've copied and pasted here seems to directly contradict what you claimed.  I've highlighted in BOLD/ ITALICS what you said about 10" abs being sterile as well as what was quoted in the report which states something quite opposite.  The last paragraph that you copied clearly states that those females over 215mm could experience some decline in egg production, BUT they could also contribute as much to reproduction as the most fecund member size range of 130-215mm.  If this is true then the one advantage of these "trophy" specimens not only produce just as much eggs, but the eggs they produce could hold the genetic information that will allow their offspring to get to trophy size (just like their mama). 

I suspect that single abalone of 260mm that had that had the 80% dead eggs is a sample of one animal.  That single old girl could be a sick specimen.  I seriously doubt they had hundreds of 10"+ female abs to sample from. 

So while it looks like you are not one of those that fall to folklore or regurgitate what you heard from someone who heard it from someone...etc.  Which is admirable.  It appears you chose to read one line of a report that you chose to believe in. 

"This suggests that management strategies that protect large females such as marine protected areas or de facto reserves will help maintain egg production..."

This sentence is the most damning.  It reads as though the authors of the report you copied from is recommending that the MPAs should be put in place to specifically protect those big females.  So maybe if you all just stopped targeting "trophy" abalone (those bigger than 10"), then there would be no need for MPAs. 

Read what you want, the gist here is that abalone beyond 8 inches are in DECLINE. Ya, 8 inchers pump out a bunch of eggs, but your leap in logic in stating that 10 inchers are in great reproductive health is bs.  Where did you arrive at the conclusion that one 260 MM animal is such an anomaly?

I'm no scientist but what I"ve said more closely resembles the truth than your extrapolations. Another point- What are the males doing? Neither you nor I have that information.

Fecundity, as measured by an estimate of the number of mature eggs per female (X), increased exponentially with increasing shell length (Y) until the peak at 215 mm in shell length after which mature egg number began to decline. The largest female 260 mm (10.24 inches) had >80% necrotic eggs.

"More work is needed to better understand the relationship between female size and egg necrosis"- I guess,  you omitted this part by mistake? Ya, one sick old female- quite the supposition you came up with there.

You're looking at % instead of total numbers.  The 2nd column in the lower table below, title (Ave. Mature Oocytes) shows that the total number of good eggs does indeed increase.  Of course the total number Necrotic eggs (column 3) also increases.  This is from Table 3 of the report you quoted.

TABLE 3.
Fecundity estimates for female red abalone from Van Damme
and Point Arena by size class showing average estimated
gonad volume (EGV), average number of immature, mature,
necrotic eggs. Percent of necrotic eggs to total number
of mature and necrotic eggs per female abalone.

                                        Ave. No.
Size Class   No. Animals    Ave. EGV    Immature
   (mm)       in Class     [mm.sup.3]   Oocytes

  0-40       (N = 10)          --             0
 41-80       (N = 13)           80.7      37721
 81-120      (N = 20)         1237      2027000
121-150      (N = 21)         6328         NM
151-178      (N = 49)        12623         NM
179-220      (N = 80)        26362         NM
221-260      (N = 11)        44746         NM

             Ave. No.   Ave. No.
Size Class   Mature     Necrotic   % Necrotic
   (mm)      Oocytes    Oocytes    Oocytes

  0-40             0          0        0
 41-80             0          0        0
 81-120        62959      28024       30.8
121-150       597706      59076        9.0
151-178      1153328      75154        6.1
179-220      2491901     192538        7.1
221-260      3068098    2005563       40.0

In fact, the author specifically states,

Egg production capacity of very large female abalone (>215 mm) is still high, despite having high percentages of necrotic eggs. The size class with the greatest number of mature eggs per female abalone was the largest size class (220-260 mm) (see Table 3, Fig. 4), suggesting that even with reproductive senescence, the largest females are still capable of producing millions of eggs.

-Allen

Full article here ... http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0QPU/is_2_23/ai_n6232172/

-Allen

Read what you want...

"More work is needed to better understand the relationship between female size and egg necrosis"- I guess,  you omitted this part by mistake? Ya, one sick old female- quite the supposition you came up with there.

No, I left it out on purpose.  It's to show you how anyone can cherry pick even a part of a sentence to support their argument. 

Read what you want, the gist here is that abalone beyond 8 inches are in DECLINE. Ya, 8 inchers pump out a bunch of eggs, but your leap in logic in stating that 10 inchers are in great reproductive health is bs.

Here you go:
                                     Ave. No.   Ave. No.
    Size Class   Mature     Necrotic   % Necrotic
       (mm)      Oocytes    Oocytes    Oocytes

      0-40             0          0        0
     41-80             0          0        0
     81-120        62959      28024       30.8
    121-150       597706      59076        9.0
    151-178      1153328      75154        6.1
    179-220      2491901     192538        7.1
    221-260      3068098    2005563       40.0

Column 2.  Looks like the number of mature Oocytes are increasing.  Could you explaiin how those numbers show DECLINE? 

Where did you arrive at the conclusion that one 260 MM animal is such an anomaly?

I never said 260mm sized abalone were anomaly.  You read into that what you wanted. 

From the report you posted.  It says: "The largest female 260 mm (10.24 inches) had >80% necrotic eggs."  While I may not have the greatest grasp of the English language, I understood the sentence to convey that ONE abalone measuring 260mm had greater than 80% dead eggs. 

And this is my reply in verbatim: "I suspect that single abalone of 260mm that had that had the 80% dead eggs is a sample of one animal.  That single old girl could be a sick specimen.  I seriously doubt they had hundreds of 10"+ female abs to sample from. "


So getting back to your favorite sentence from the report:

Fecundity, as measured by an estimate of the number of mature eggs per female (X), increased exponentially with increasing shell length (Y) until the peak at 215 mm in shell length after which mature egg number began to decline. The largest female 260 mm (10.24 inches) had >80% necrotic eggs.

It appears you glommed onto this statement as the most important statement of the report and you've kept repeating the part about the "egg numbers in trophy abs are in decline" but the numbers from Table 3, column 2 clearly show an increase in mature Oocytes.  So I looked at the data from a different perspective.  This is what I've arrived at.  Now, I too can't claim to be a scientist or statistician and humbly ask those that are in the field to correct me if they find faulty logic. 

Here's a simple table I used to show percentage increase of mature Oocytes as the abs increase in size ranges:
Size Class   Mature    % change
   (mm)      Oocytes       
81-120   62959   
121-150   597706   849%
151-178   1153328   93%
179-220   2491901   116%
221-260   3068098   23%

The % change column shows that the largest sample range abalone had egg production increase over the next range in size of only 23%, which when compared to the other incremental increases shows a "decline".  The "DECLINE" that you like to point out is actually a decline in the exponential (read percent) increase in the number of mature eggs as the size of the abalone increase because the actual (estimated) count of mature eggs is increasing, not in decline as you claim. 

supposition and extrapolation.