Sinking Raptor

Hey PolePole, why don't you test drive the raptor?  Don't be like the paparazzi

Really?

-Allen

Hey PolePole, why don't you test drive the raptor?  Don't be like the paparazzi

Really?

-Allen

I call shotgun, you can ride in the bait well.  Just drop me off in the 15ft area, so I can shoot a halibut and then pick me back up.

Hey PolePole, why don't you test drive the raptor?  Don't be like the paparazzi

Really?

-Allen

I call shotgun, you can ride in the bait well.  Just drop me off in the 15ft area, so I can shoot a halibut and then pick me back up.

I have absolutely no interest in paddling a SINK for kayak fishing applications.  That's just me, and I'll leave it at that.

-Allen

Hey, don't be a Stinker its not a Sinker.   

The location of the Raptors drain plugs or installed on top of the split sterns right at the ends. In rough water the waves will go over them and if your moving at a good clip water will flow over them continuously,

     Watch the Ravensblack VS  Baitman  video again...   there's no water flowing over the plugs.    I gotta paddle faster and create a wake...
   

   Drain plugs sure makes it easy to flush  all the blood, scales, sand and fish guts out of the boat.

I would bleed the fish in the stern. Thats pretty cool. You could put a shitload of ice in there with sodas and fish. Then sell pops OTW. You could be beerman not baitman. How did you get baitman anyway? Hobie cats have the plugs underwater when they are leaning. All power boats with a plug are usually under the waterline also. DaveW's friend Allen paddles an old WW kayak for fishing. That MFer can haul ass in that thing too.

I would bleed the fish in the stern. Thats pretty cool. You could put a shitload of ice in there with sodas and fish. Then sell pops OTW. 

    Next years PIF...     I'll sell beer and sodas
                                                someone younger can race. 

I would bleed the fish in the stern. Thats pretty cool. You could put a shitload of ice in there with sodas and fish. Then sell pops OTW. 

    Next years PIF...     I'll sell beer and sodas
                                                someone younger can race.

I will bet I outfish you.

Ask Piski or EWB how many times they've told me OTW, "Dude, your drain plugs undone"     Happens all the time, across all models and makes with stern-mounted plugs.  Out of sight, outta my mind...

Thing is, YOU would have enough sense to question WTF was going on before the hull is completely full of water!

Something does seem a little "questionable" about this incident. I'm not going to make any judgments about the Raptor since I haven't even seen one in person, much less paddled one, but I'm inclined to think this was more user error than problem with the kayak. A few questions to think about:

1) Did he check the kayak, which he was unfamiliar with, prior to launching? He may (should) have noticed missing plugs with a quick visual inspection.
2) Why did he neglect to use the air bags that were supposedly offered? (Did I understand that correctly, that he was actually handed air bags & didn't take them?)
3) Why didn't he notice something was wrong before the entire hull was completely swamped, especially is he's sitting in it???  If your kayak feels heavy or unstable, don't you check for water or other problems and turn around & try to get the flunk back to shore before it's too late?

I think it was mostly paddler error that led to this incident, but now a few observations about the kayak:

- What's with placing drain holes at or near the water line? OK, maybe they're above the water when not loaded or in FAC conditions, but c'mon, we know a little weight or chop is gonna change that. We also know that people are gonna forget to put plugs in sometimes. It's been a problem on other kayaks - fine - but this is a new boat; why not learn from other mfrs' mistakes? At least if the drain is on the deck, you've got a fighting chance if the plug ain't in. As for PBs having the plug under the water line, not even a valid comparison - most PBs I've seen are a hell of a lot harder to turn over & drain than any kayak.

- Next, it's a Sit-Inside; why weren't those airbags permanently installed? The owner should put them where he wants them and leave 'em there. Also, did we answer the question about bulkheads? Are there any?

- One last thing & I'll quit!  I'll give the benefit of the doubt that the Raptor is stable enough to take BTB (as they call it) but it had better have full flotation, a bilge pump on board, and it probably ought to have a skirt - what's to stop a wave from dumping right into the open cockpit. And, of course, the paddler d@mn sure better be able to self rescue!

You cant blame the manufacture for human dumbness.  Even if you bulkheaded it , which I dont think theres room for it, you still need to pump it out. Even SISK's that are bulkheaded can hold a ton of water in the cockpit/ leg area. Linelle capzised the calabria on the Russian and it was a cluster f*&^K.  If you take one over that ride and into the cockpit you really shouldnt be out in it.

You cant blame the manufacture for human dumbness.  Even if you bulkheaded it , which I dont think theres room for it, you still need to pump it out. Even SISK's that are bulkheaded can hold a ton of water in the cockpit/ leg area. Linelle capzised the calabria on the Russian and it was a cluster f*&^K.  If you take one over that ride and into the cockpit you really shouldnt be out in it.

Yeah, but if it is bulkheaded you can get most of the water out of a swamped kayak without a pump.

I guess it would be alright if the raptor is stable enough to board without spilling and re-swamping when it is 3/4 full of water.  If it isn't you are talking about much more time outside of the kayak likely in cold water.  I'm sure it would be much better with bags installed, but how many people do you think will buy and install bags?  Has Sonny done it with his?  I don't like the idea of SIKs in the ocean without a skirt, especially one that if swamped will take substantially more time to right and re-board. 

Not all kayaks have to be bulkheaded Adam. Put foam in the front and rear and call it good. You start bulkheading it and then what? You lose space. Plus the fact that the boat has to be long enough to warrant it. Adding production cost. This is a new craft. You cant spend spend spend until you know it s going to make money. Then do upgrades.

I read all the posts on the Texas kayak fishing site. The guy that sank it, IT WAS HIS FAULT AND HE ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY, grabbed it from someone else that had it out on the water for at least an hour. Whether that guy deliberately left the drain plugs and flotation bags out.....we will never know the truth as no one on that site fessed up to that. When I have borrowed someone else's kayak I have never bothered to check if the drain plugs are in or if there is 'flotation' in the hull.j.....AND I ALMOST SANK A T-140 AS A RESULT! It happens.

Much to do about nothing IMO. Some good pics of the underwater Raptor though. 
 If you're going to use a raptor on the ocean or bay you should carry a skirt for when it gets snotty.....just like any other SIK should. jim

PS: BTB = beyond the breakers? Now that is ghey! It's foking Texas mate.
That ain't a wave it's a ripple.           

IMO, I like the current locations for the drain plugs on the Raptor, it make cleanning the inside the yak a breeze (see picture 1).  Also, the plugs is at least 6" from the water line unless you loaded the back with too many "stuffs"  (see picture 2)

How many of you guys actually use the drainplugs?  I never do, in fact, they are gooped shut on some of my yaks, and I never check them.

I find using a bilgepump to be a faster way to get out the water.

-Allen