Who's responsibility was it?

I found this an interesting read.  There is a lesson in here somewhere.

http://www.nrsweb.com/services/newsletter/2010/rtnstory_1210a.asp?roi=echo4-12025784147-9583801-4568049c010ac526714d1aa776558885&fc_c=2891755x9583801x213447680&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=rtn1210a&utm_term=nl_delusionsinAppalachia

He was a friend, and, in a way, triumphantly bringing him down the river would somehow scratch my itch to be the hometown hero, if at least to someone. Had we waited until I was certain Matt was good enough to paddle the Watauga, he never would have gone into that sieve. Had I been less confident in my ability to save him, I wouldn’t have had to.

-Allen

i don't know....Matt was only 16....so i think it was the writers...

I recall getting a friend in over his head climbing (free-soloing actually). He froze, I talked him through it, and we both made it out, but it was close.
Those more experienced have a responsibility...i just don't know how far that responsibility goes

There is a lesson in here somewhere.

Exactly

How far that responsibility goes is the question.

But imo, even if a complete stranger you didn't invite were to get into trouble it falls into your responsibility if you are in a position to offer assistance. 

I trusted a friend once, I always wanted to try scuba . We went to Folsom in Feb. he put wet suit on me weight belt and all the gear. No instructions never done this and did not try any gear on first ie. face mask, amount of weight on belt. Just told me if I had trouble fill up this vest.
We walked backwards in the water until submerged I had so much weight I never had to swim I just walked on the bottom. Water was very muddy he was only a couple feet from me but we could not see each other. My mask filled with water tried clearing it a couple times and then managed to suck in a shit load of water and started choking .Tried to swim for the surface but it was too much weight panicked so never filled the little vest. Only maybe 10-12ft of water.
Some how he saw the thrashing and bubbles grabbed me by the legs while trying to fill my vest pushed me to the surface. I of course panicked and tried to beat the shit out of him cause I could not kick up. While pummeling him with my elbows and knees  he got the belt off.
I was young and dumb and always wanted to try this sport. He had taken classes had all the gear and had lots of confidence.
When we got to shore I puked and coughed tons of water.
His confidence almost killed me.
I take baby steps with people when they try new things with me.And watch them like a nervous mother hen.
Kind of like Bloodbath did with me ab diving

The lesson is $hit happens sometimes. 

What most people don't know is that Murphy's Law is BS.  The truth is that if something can go horribly wrong, it usually doesn't.  This leads to over-confidence in boneheaded behavior. 

Ultimately we are always responsible for ourselves. But since this kid was only 16 society might have pointed a finger at his older than 18 year old buddy if he had died. Since the author mentions surfing the North Shore I will say that IMO age shouldn't always be an excuse to level blame as there are kids surfing & kayaking now that can surf & kayak circles around me and plenty of older dudes in the most serious of conditions.    And FWIW having surfed many spots on the North Shore myself over the years I know that the aura of that place is well deserved. NORTH SHORE POWER! jim

Doesnt shit just happen sometimes?

Doesnt shit just happen sometimes?

Sure does Craig, and I agree with you.  However, the problem is that much of today's society likes to lay blame somewhere.  It's always somebody else's fault.  And I'm not necessarily referring to the article above, just speaking in general.

It sounds like to me that the kid was taking responsibility for his actions. Not laying blame at the foot of his mentor. It just might be grandiose thinking that the event could of been somehow different. The older guy feels bad, sure, but to accept all things and blame himself is the role of the martyr. When he should be just thanking God that no lifes were taken. Then again, maybe none of them should have been on the water. I have been out at the coast for more abalone openers than I can remember. Over half have been sip coffe in the truck and check the waves. ADVISING PEOPLE NOT TO DO IT. Then watching with anxiety at them getting slammed at the base of the ocean cove cliff, Salt Point, Stillwater, Reef and Horeshoe.

Look at the quote Allen posted originally:

Had we waited until I was certain Matt was good enough to paddle the Watauga, he never would have gone into that sieve. Had I been less confident in my ability to save him, I wouldn’t have had to.

The blame, if there is some to be placed, is the arrogance of youth.

When you ask, "Who is responsible?", you also have to ask "for what?", which may not have anything to do with blame.

Ben

At 16, and in class III water, Matt was responsible. From a legal standpoint the writer may have been found culpable, but realistically what Matt was doing was comparable to driving in San Francisco or LA. Plenty of 16 year olds behind the wheel...

Scott

Plenty of 16 year olds behind the wheel...

Scott

True.  Sixteen is a weird age legally.  It's old enough for a drivers license, but it's under the age of lawful consent in some regards (still a minor) so can't enter certain contracts, among other things.  Nnot as simple as saying kid knew what he was getting into, bc Im guessing a minor in this situation lacks capacity to give informed consent.

If the kid died, there's some liability there for the guide. My guess     

Those more experienced have a responsibility...i just don't know how far that responsibility goes

Very true, its hard to say as in kayaking we all have a responsibility to make sure everyone gets out safe and help others that our not as experienced and even those that our experienced that may need our help.

I don't actually care whose responsibility it is.  I just wanted you all to go through the thought process.  Like almost everything discussed safety wise, there are no HARD AND FAST rules.  Most things are situational.   

-Allen