no really, what about floatation foam in your kayak?

you might be right about that blue (and pescadore). maybe my tune will change when I'm out there
and it's rough. But I'll be glad I have a leg rope and my kayak sink-proofed too.

Btw, I have seen one shark, 6-8 foot, very fat bodied. tracked a surfer while inside the wave.
very fast effortless shark. Saw it at moss landing. I was paddling out and watched it trail the
surfer in the wave for a number of seconds and I could see it clearly in the wave. not a dolphin. 

I figured it was a mako or salmon shark or something, but it could have been a juvenile GWS.

How ya'll are?!,
 Looking at the statistics about canoe and kayak accidents and deaths is kinda gloomy!
 However if you take into account that probably 90% of those were in some sort of whitewater river situation and not a calm fishing day relaxing with a cold one, it's easy to see how the numbers stack up.
 I will never go ouit without my PFD no matter how safe the ocean looks.
Hope the weather calms down soon as I am anxiuos to paddle for fish!
  from the wet southern Oregon coast

I don't think anyone here was minimizing the need to wear a wetsuit.  Why can't you guys come to grips that a wetsuit AND a PFD are both good things to use?  It's not one or the other.

-Allen

Allen, I do perceive that the wetsuit does not get as much safety attention as the PFD.

It's an opinion, granted.

Also, I'm not anti PFD per-se, so I think we might be talking at cross-purposes a bit.

You want me to share your exact opinions? Heh, you are going to get carpal tunnel!

Maybe we should pick something else to argue about? 

This thread is about floating a kayak in a fool-proof way. We can have another thread on
the relative merit of PFD vs other safety equipment I suppose, but even I draw the line
at starting some threads! 

"lack of attention" is not the same as "minimizing the need for".

No need to share my exact opinion.  I'm not against people using common sense and doing what's right for them.  However,  I personally will not "highlight the inadequacy of the PFD".  I will, however, highlight the inadequacy of NOT wearing a wetsuit.  I don't want to trade off one vs. the other.  IMO, they are both important.

-Allen

The law states you must have a PFD onboard, so everyone is required to have one.  But we are not required to have other gear that is actually more likely to save your life on the ocean.  The state does a good enough job over-selling the PFD without our help.

My opinion on the PFD. I own two PFD's one of them is a generic water skier type pfd, the other is a full blown paddling PFD. I always have one available on deck and in easy reach. You can't use it if you have to open a hatch and get it out. I have yet to actually paddle with the paddling pfd on, let alone take it out on the water. It cost so much I don't want to want to get it dirty.
It seems to me that the thing a lot of people don't seem to know about PFD's is that not all PFD's are the same. Some will keep you face up in the water if you are unconscious; others will turn you face down in the water if you are unconscious. I also do not like the knee jerk reaction of "wear a PFD it will save your life". To me it sounds like a mantra of protection or something "if I just keep the PFD on no harm can or will come to me". That type of thinking is just asking for an accident to happen. In fact it really scares me the way some people really seem to think that a PFD = amulet of protection. Don't get me wrong I am not knocking PFD's as I said I own 2 and always have 1 within arms reach on the kayak. I just don't often paddle with one on. On the other hand (perhaps because I came from diving to kayaking) if I am going to be more than knee deep in the Nor. Cal ocean I always have a wet suit on.

I guess in my opinion it is more important to know yourself and the conditions you are in than to simply trust that a PFD will protect you. It might, it might not. I have worn my PFD when the conditions going back to the put-in were in my opinion extreme and no option for an early pull out and walk back to the car existed. It made me feel better about the situation I had to paddle into, but it has never made me feel safer. Safety is a state of mind and a set of procedures to follow to help minimize dangerous situations. You act safely, you think your way safely through a process, you use equipment to again minimize dangerous situations as safely as possible. But you do not ever just go out and purchase safety!

To actually comment on the kayak floatation issue, I feel a SOT is less a floatation risk that a SIT - simply for the fact that a SOT unless otherwise compromised is a sealed floatation device already, a SIT has that big ole hole in the top of it. However I also jammed as many pool noodles in my SOT as I could without losing the usable space. Same reason I actually own a PFD at all. Always be prepared and better to be over prepared than under.

Jeff

 
Just watched the Mythbusters lift a small 16' or so sport boat off the bottom of the bay with PING PONG BALLS!
How hard can that be? Tip the sucker up and dump a month's pay worth of ping pong balls.
Now, how do ya keep em all in!!??
Kinda funny huh?

i once had this wonderful concept of making a emergency kayak float that takes little space. you would stuff an inflatable hypalon bag down the kayak and then have it plumbed to a mini pony bottle used for scuba with a regulator on it. in am emergency you just crank it on from the nadle and it will inflate the hypalon bag stuffed in your kayak. you would not need a large bottle for air just a small 8 inch long and maybe 3" wide bottle , just a cheapo regulator with hose and a float bag used in river kayaks stuffed down on the end you dont store gear in.

another concept i had was to plumb the kayak with a tube that leads from the inside bottom to the outside of the kayak with a one way valve at the end. you can mount a pony bottle of pressurized air and plumb a line to the inside of the kayak. in an emergency you can just open up the valve on the bottle and the air will pass through the regulator, inside the hull and displace the water from the bottom of the kayak through the exit tube.

brainstorming:

does not fail safe. what stops the regulator from rusting, etc?

btw, for last sunday @ moss I stuffed a few pool noodles in my kayak,  .

I have $50 worth of expandable foam sitting in my garage waiting (and waiting)
for a day warm enough to pour some into my kayak and return the noodles
to my patient kids.

J

does not fail safe. what stops the regulator from rusting, etc?

J

the regulator would be a basic scuba regulator that is stainless. all thats needed is a little rinse every now and then and it should be fine. no need for a balanced regulator or anything fancy, just a basic one will do such as a scubapro mk 2 or equivalent.

all hardware would be stainless and submersible.

maybe you should apply for the patent!

your signature looks like you referring to your new avatar! 

is it like bunnies and rabbits? pets and meat?

the only danger i can see is that if someone's kayak was a little too sealed and the tube was clogged, then the pressure would build up and they would maybe be faced with a hatch popping off and turning into a projectile.

gpig,
 sounds like a lot of work and weight, maintenance.
I still like my pool noodles!

i agree, simple is best. no way to go wrong with less complex floatation systems.

i too would choose pool noodles right now.