Not a good day on the Sheep ranch for Wile. E.

"but to kill something just for the skin or shell or jaws, there's no denying that's an ego thing and I don't think it's cool or right or fair, especially with apex predators. And half-hearted attempts at eating it after the fact don't justify it."

OK. You brought this upon yourself. I don't think anything else needs to be said...lol.

Next?!

I, literally, grew up at the end of a mile long gravel road on a 40 acre hobby farm, with our nearest neighbor a mile away. Vacant and BLM land went on for miles around us. We heard every night, but rarely saw, coyotes. On rare occasions heard a cougar scream. Or found bear scat as my friends and I wandered around. So 40 years ago, in really rural, wild, SW WA you didn't "see" much in the way of predators. They had plenty of room and prey to avoid us and our livestock.

After decades in the burbs, we moved here to our "ranchette" where, if the wind is with me, I can throw a rock and hit two of our neighbor's houses. I killed hundreds of ground squirrels. A coyote came every night for the carcasses. My wife has seen bobcat and foxes while walking the perimeter of the place. My neighbor one day tells me he saw a cougar sunning himself in the ravine that runs behind both our property. And it goes on.

The reason for my windy story (I'm sorry) is that I'm struck by how much more contact there is. I love wildlife, but if any of it is a threat to my family, or our "stock", I won't let that stop me from killing it. In some instances, like raccoons, we've wiped out their predators so we have to take their place. It's just the price of competing with nature.

But, based on my experiences growing up, or living in the burbs, I don't think I ever would have understood the necessity. Maybe you have to experience some things viscerally to come to grips with it. I personally wouldn't kill something just to kill it, but if you're not breaking any laws, I don't really care what other people do. I doubt a lot of people would understand why I enjoy a lot of the shit I do.

Ben

One of many favorite movies.....Predator.
One of many favorite songs.....Countdown to Extinction.
Andrew's t-shirt.....I laughed so hard I was crying.
I guess I'm just a sucker for my fellow mammals.
Getting older and weaker.
Dustin, you're welcome to come pet my rat anyday but there'll be a weapons check at the gate. Jim

I dont give a "shoot" either way, ironic how that tee shirt came in the play!

My neighbor one day tells me he saw a cougar sunning himself in the ravine that runs behind both our property. And it goes on.

It was like 80 degrees on Tuesday and my sidekick and I saw a cougar sunning herself at Aquatic Park.  I told him to take the shot but homie declined.  Said he didn't feel like mounting her later.

~~~

Good provocative post.  just because someone is an angler/diver, does that mean he's only doing so for necessity/survival?  No.  Or does someone who shoots and bags big game do so for the sole purpose of feeding an ego?  No.  Both harvest some wildlife b/c its a lawful, enjoyable outdoor activity.  There's much more in common than there is in distinction and any perceived differences shouldn't drive a wedge anyway.

Okay, so I keep ab shells. Who doesn't? That first pic of me you posted is of an ab with a lot of meat, hence the meat side showing. The shell wasn't much to speak of. All but two of those abs above my garage are under 9, most under 8. I took them down a long time ago. I take abs because I enjoy the diving and the resulting ceviche and abalone parmesan. The shells are extra. The halibut jaw in my avatar floated to the top of my stock pot when I was boiling the head for soup and I thought it would be fun to put it back together. I have a shark jaw on my wall that I found on a road in Baja. It was caught by local fishermen and probably fell off of their truck as they were driving to town to sell it (I wouldn't ever kill a shark for its jaw or even its meat). Most fish I catch I don't photograph or report to anyone.

Abs aren't apex predators. To kill a leopard that you're not going to eat - just so you can "enjoy" its hide doesn't seem okay to me, but hey if it floats your boat, and it's legal, then by all means.

Hypothetical situation:

You're hunting exotic rugs in Africa and find yourself staring at a beautiful leopard in your crosshairs. Before you pull the trigger you notice a larger leopard next to it, but it's already dead.
Assuming the coat on the dead leopard is pristine and that the limit on leopards is 1, what do you do? Do you shoot the smaller leopard or do you go over and collect the hide from the larger dead one? If there is no thrill in the kill and it's not going to be eaten, then the answer seems simple.

Yakuza you always crack me up!

Dustin, I understand that you're not in into hunting for the ego boost. I don't think anybody is accusing you of it, either. But you've got to understand that it IS part of the equation for some people who hunt for trophies. More power to them.
Comparing a bobcat mount to a trophy ab shell is ridiculous though. I see the similarities--in terms of how both types of trophy could potentially be an ego-booster. But that's where it ends. People don't eat bobcats, coyotes, etc (ok...Americans don't eat them). Whereas, abalone are so, so tasty! [and the females' reproductive ability maxes-out at like 8 inches, so it's not detrimental to the population if you harvest larger ones...compared to like lingcod whose ability to produce offspring increases exponentially as they grow]

Dustin, I understand that you're not in into hunting for the ego boost. I don't think anybody is accusing you of it, either.

Umm, Malibu_Two blatantly accused me of it, even after I clearly spelled it out for him at least three times. But I didn't start debating this topic because I felt I was being personally attacked. I was (and still am, unfortunately) trying to show ignorant people another side of the equation. M_T repeatedly tried to tell me what my motivations were and was proven wrong twice, so he then came back and put words into my mouth regarding my- There's more to the mount than the mount comment. He shot off his mouth thinking he knew what was up and really had no clue. So two seperate moderators PMed me telling me to call him out on his hypocrasy.

But you've got to understand that it IS part of the equation for some people who hunt for trophies. More power to them.

I never once said it wasn't. My replies specifically said that what I was expressing was related to me only...not all hunters.

Comparing a bobcat mount to a trophy ab shell is ridiculous though.

How so? They are both animals. My argument towards M_T had nothing to do with trophies. It has to do with ANIMALS. I'm killing one for one reason, he is killing one for another reason....only in his head he has justified to himself that killing an animal to eat is somehow better than killing an animal to admire in my house for years, and therefore he took some bullshit high and mighty stance based on HIS belief. He also believes that somehow a coyote's life is worth way more than the dozens of abalone he's killed...which (to me) is also bullshit. Hence the sea kitten reference. There is no difference. We both killed an animal for a selfish reason only he's justified his killing is OK, while denouncing my killing.

People don't eat bobcats, coyotes, etc (ok...Americans don't eat them). Whereas, abalone are so, so tasty!

You are also using the same line of thought. You've made yourself feel all warm and fuzzy over killing animals by justifying to yourself that it is OK because you ate them.

If I came in here saying I want to shoot a bunch of coyotes and leave 'em there to rot then may be your guys' arguments wouldn't be so weak, and you wouldn't be making yourselves look like such hypocrites.

Next?!

Point made Gentlemen...

No one is wrong here, its the holidays for crying out loud, lets celebrate our lives with family and friends....

over a turkey dinner....

who's shooting it

Dustin, sorry this got personal. I was referring to the guy who shot the leopard, not you, and if you took offense - which obviously you have - then I'm sorry.
The pictures you put up of me definitely paint a hypocritical picture of me, and I'm slightly embarrassed by it. However, I'll stick to my guns (or ab irons if you will) in that I think shooting an animal just for a trophy is wrong, and shooting apex predators - of which there are relatively few - is wrong also. That's my opinion, and that's all.

Jesus humping christ, I'm on your side bro! lol...no need to break-down my response like a book report.  I simply felt like you were being a little harsh on M2, so I felt compelled to respond.

For sale: two slightly soiled leopard skin rugs.
Free AB shells with purchase.

Jesus humping christ, I'm on your side bro! lol...no need to break-down my response like a book report.  I simply felt like you were being a little harsh on M2, so I felt compelled to respond.

It's all good, dude. I'm not sitting here steaming mad. I'm just having a debate here. I admit I let it get personal, but when I see blatant hypocrisy (I looked it up this time) I call it like it is. (Plus all the PMs egging me on didn't help  ).

And for what it's worth this was all just good natured conversation until this post:

There's more to a mount than the mount...

That's the ego part, the "I-killed-that-animal-and-want-everyone-to-know" part.

two seperate moderators PMed me telling me to call him out

So whose moderating the moderators? 

Okay, I usually don't fall into such traps but here we go. I enjoy a picture of a fish on my wall long after the dishes are done. A turkey fantail nailed up in the garage brings back fond memories of the hunt long after the frozen soup from the leftovers has been consumed. I carry the tooth from a badger (absolutely self defense) in my left  front pocket along with the mushroomed slug from the pig I shot. Yes, these little tokens remind me of special times and yes I show them to people who might (and sometimes not) be interested in such stories. I have a good buddy who goes to Africa every year and shoots some of the craziest animals you ever saw and I enjoy reading his stories and looking at the pictures. Everyone to their own......

ps don't think I could ever shoot a coyote, bear, big cat, etc unless my life depended on it