leader to hook knots, take the palomar challenge, report back

I ran out of my favorite leader material and was forced to buy more while away from my favorite tackle shop.  Thinking I would save money in the long run I bought 300 yards of some 20 lb 100% fluorcarbon by P-Line, quite expensive.  Back at the tent, the night before the next family outing, I tied new 20 lb fluorcarbon leaders on all four poles we would be using.  I wont bother explaining my quirky ways, but installation of the new leader meant tying two clinch knots (Moochs videos in above topics) with one of the clinch knots to the hook or lure.  

On the first casts the next morning we lost the entire rigging from two poles, I quickly radioed the troops collected their poles while on the water and retied in an attempt to save what was left of our tackle.  Our family of four can loose a lot of tackle very quickly drifting rocky areas.  Even more when my Mom goes.

I am having a hard time believing the how weak the clinch knot strength is on the line I have.  Therefore I have been comparing knot strengths.  I dont have a fancy machine to measure breaking tension.  But if I cut a short new piece of line, and tie each end to a clean swivel with whatever knots I want to compare, then attach the two swivels to some kind of makeshift handles (I used rope), and pull, I can discover which knot is stronger.


My results:
Palomar versus clinch knot.  Palomar as tied in video of Mooch post above topic.  The clinch knot broke first in three out of three tests.  The clinch knot always broke right at the knot.  My interpretation of my results is that the palomar weakens the line to a lesser degree than the clinch knot and therefore is stronger.  When you consider how easy and fast the palomar is to tie while pitching and rolling in the swelly foggy sea, it seems like a no-brainer, palomar all the way.

Palomar versus palomar.  Wow, now thats what I am talking about.  This combo can take some pressure, how much I dont know.  And how close to actual line strength, again I dont know.  Remember I dont have a tensionometer.  But this combo lets you put much more force on the line test before failure.  And when failure does occur, it is still at one of the knots.  Probably the knots are weakening the line again, so actual line strength is not really attained, but I think palomar comes closer to achieving line strength than the clinch knot.  

My challenge to you, compare your knot to the palomar in this simple little break test, and report back.   I am sure somebody can dig up on line data from somewhere, but this is something we can do right now with our own gear.  

Hey Kris,
Get out of the garage and go fish !

Here's your answers:
http://www.fishingclub.com/Portals/0/uploadedfiles/Videos_and_Podcasts/Knot%20Wars%20Results%202009_2010.pdf

Watch it here:
http://www.fishingclub.com/video/articletype/categoryview/categoryid/1016/knot-wars-2010

I've actually done a fair amount of testing in my garage after a frustrating failure. For mono lines the palomar and the Uni knot are hard to beat for how easy they are to tie, and with the palomar being the easier I use it almost all the time. Of course there are specialized knots for special needs, but I'm talking about tying to a swivel or lure. When I tie a hook I almost always snell it. Anything from 4lb to 100 lb mono gets the snell.

For braid I use the double palomar or the uni knot. Same here, I use the double palomar most of the time. In my unscientific tests, the uni knot is stronger, but not that much really. I used a fish scale on one side and my vice on the other. I tied a swivel to each end of the line. Then I put more and more tension on it until it broke. I was testing my sturgeon gear which is 65lb power pro braid. I think I reached somewhere close to 58lbs of tension when the uni knot broke and about 56 when the double palomar broke. That's not enough in my book to justify the extra effort of the uni knot over the double palomar.

A word of caution. In my tests of the braid the single palomar pulled out more than once. The double didn't. Also make sure you lube it or it's hard to pull tight.

In your quirky way did you get the line wet before you tighten it down. 20 pound florocarbon is hard to break using either knots. You know if you do not it will cause the florocarbon or mono to crack from the heat generated by this friction.