Hali"s? How to save them??? Non Yak...

So if large halibut produce many, many more eggs than juveniles. Who's up for not taking large halibut for AOTY? I would be if the concensus is there. Craig

It is possible to C+R 'buts and get a pic of it on the Hawg Trough. It w/b a sh!tstorm on the deck...but possible.

I agree with you, Craig - one halibut a day is plenty. And a seasonal limit of ten sounds reasonable. Last year I only got 4, my most since 2002.

But if you plan to release a hog, don't net it or bring it in the boat. If you do, you might as well keep it. Personally I would rather keep my first fish than release 5 hoping for a big one because of the mortality rate on released fish - I wonder how many halibut die after getting a face full of treble hooks. Maybe there should be a 1st fish you catch rule with halibut like they used to do with salmon.

Hell, I think a seasonal card limit on rockfish would be reasonable, too. Think about it - abalone grow and reproduce at approximately the same slow rate as rockfish - yet we're allowed 10 per DAY on rockies and only 24 abs per SEASON.

These would be great alternatives to the MLPA.
Sorry for jacking this thread even further.

It is possible to C+R 'buts and get a pic of it on the Hawg Trough. It w/b a sh!tstorm on the deck...but possible.

You'll probably risk killing the fish that way...not worth it for a picture.

Thats kind of true about catch and realease. I don't think I really want a face full of hali teeth in my lap while I measure. Mis juevos es muy importante mi amigo

Gotta agree on the hali slot limits.  But I think we should have slot limits for everything.   Why not?  That stat on egg production for small vs large halibut was pretty amazing.  But I bet the science would back that up for almost any species of fish (someone will correct me on it).  Also, I remember that article someone posted on how we have gone "reverse-Darwin:" by killing the largest fish we are adversely selecting and making the average sizes in the population smaller; what's worse, this process is actually accelerating.  Slot limits for everything would turn that trend around. 

Up here in Mendocino County there is a huge thing about getting a 10" ab.  I would like to get one, just one.  But some people have a personal competitive thing about getting at least 10 a year or something.  It's like whose d--- is bigger.  This isn't friggin' basketball; we all win or lose TOGETHER.  The scientist I spoke with at the Bodega Marine Lab said they had never found/tested an ab that was over 10" that was NOT fertile.  This goes in the face of the common local tale about how "they are not fertile so we might as well hammer them."  It's actually the opposite, and I bet the numbers of eggs per inch of ab would be like the big halis.

Maybe I am still stunned by the crushing fall of the salmon population, where buddies of mine were still making a good living just a few years ago as commercial fishermen.  Now it's full closure.  Until the wild-fish fisheries turn around,  I think we need to start thinking about fish in a different way.  It's kind of a "sport with occasional benefits" kind of thing.  Food will be considered as a nice occasional additional benefit to a day on the water, sorry to say.  This future is coming.  But we can choose this approach now before the populations choose for us (some already have). 

I think the educated, excellent fishermen in NCKA have a duty to lead the way on this.  (The bait guys shore-fishing the delta are not going to lead the way!)  Whether we adopt "gentleman's rules" internally, or whatever, I think we are running out of time to choose to make a difference, because even "healthy" fisheries can plummet so fast, as we have seen with the salmon.  Would anyone here really fight a reduction to 2 halibut a day?

"Going on a meat run" actually means exponentially less fish for the next generation of yakkers to catch, when we are taking lunkers out.  Think of a fish that churns out a million eggs a day versus 300,000 a week (did I have that stat right?!)  You start running the math and the amount of baby halis that won't be born becomes mathematically, pretty huge pretty quickly. 

This is not to criticize someone who is following the rules and nails a big flatty.  I would probably fillet it on the spot; halibut is the best eating and its all meat.  But we are entering a new period for fishermen. Back when flocks of millions (really, millions) of ducks and geese would darken the sun as they passed through Northern California, you would kill a hundred a day, easy.  John Audobon would kill birds so he could paint them, and there were so many it was no problem.  Now, bird-watchers don't need to kill the bird in order to feel great that they "got" it.  (pardon the analogy but there is some point there somewhere..).

I love eating fish, but I think we need a new way of looking at this resource.  Sorry for the long post. 

Well written and you make some good points. As much as meat fishing can put a dent in a population, I'm also not a big fan of catch and release. Don't get me wrong, I've done it, but I would prefer to catch and keep one salmon or halibut and call it an early day than hook, exhaust, and release 10 fish in a day that may or may not survive.

Tighter limits are definitely in the future. I know boat fishermen would kick and scream over this, but I would be all in favor of 5 rockfish per day, one ling, one cab, and a seasonal limit of say 40 rockfish, 5 lings, etc. You get the point.

Also, the Shelton fish release should be mandatory. As a rule, if I release a fish, even a tiny black and yellow, and it floats to the surface belly-up, I keep it even if I don't want it, and any little blacks I use for bait are part of my limit.

Maybe we need to make it harder to get a fishing license. Perhaps we should be required to take a test to identify different species, know the rules, and to teach everyone to respect the resource. That would weed out a lot of bad seeds.

There are 40 million people in this state and we have some remarkable fishing. I hope we can preserve it.

I remember hearing a problem with catch and release halibut is that the nets split the tail causes an infection. Can't site my sources, but maybe someone can find a source for this information.

-Brian G

Here a link to a recent article about halibut

http://www.iep.ca.gov/report/newsletter/2008_newsletters/IEPNewsletter_2FINALFALL2008.pdf

California Halibut in the San Francisco Estuary
Maxfield A. Fish (DFG), [email protected],
In 2008, anglers pursuing California halibut, Paralichthys californicus, in the San Francisco Estuary had unprecedented success. Anglers have found success with almost every type of bait and lure and full bag limits have been common since May 2008. Although fish weighing up to 40 lbs have been landed, the vast majority of retained fish were in the 22-25 inch (559-635 mm) range (Fraser, personal communication, see Notes). Many party boat skippers have been quoted as saying that this year’s
SwivelCablestowinches
14 IEP Newsletter
IEP QUARTERLY HIGHLIGHTS
success is an obvious indicator of the health of the halibut population, but whether this is true is a case for debate.
California halibut is an opportunistic predator and a wide range of prey items have been documented among stomach contents. During the first 3 years of life (up to 300 mm TL) the diet is dominated by crustaceans, a large portion of which is mysids and caridean shrimp (Wertz and Domeier 1997). In southern California, gobies represented a significant part of the diet for juveniles (Drawbridge 1990); this is likely true for San Francisco Bay as well. California halibut over 300 mm TL are predominately piscivorous and feed primarily on northern anchovy Engraulis mordax, Pacific sardine, Sardinops sagax, white croaker, Genyonemus lineatus, and other flatfishes (Wertz and Domeier 1997).
Both the eggs and larvae of California halibut are pelagic. Once they settle, juveniles spend the early part of their life foraging in shallow bays, estuaries and sheltered portions of the open coast. Estuaries and other embayments are an extremely important nursery habitat for juvenile halibut. In southern California, over a 2-year period, elemental fingerprinting showed that although only 15% of potential nursery habitat occurred within embayments, 58% of juvenile halibut were determined to have embayment origins (Fodrie and Levin 2008).
California halibut is a subtropical species and requires warm water for successful reproduction. Laboratory experiments have shown that almost no larvae survived at day 17 in water temperatures less than or equal to 12°C, and highest larval survival occurred in water temperatures between 16 and 24°C (Gadomski et. al. 1991). In the northern part of its range, San Francisco Estuary included, ocean temperatures fluctuate seasonally, but rarely remain warm for an extended period of time, and therefore successful spawning events are infrequent.
Over the entire study period (1980 to present), the San Francisco Bay Study (CDFG) data set showed only 4 strong year classes of California halibut in the estuary (Figure 1). These cohorts were concurrent with warm water events associated with the early 1980s, early 1990s, late 1990s, and most recently late 2004 and early 2005 (Figure 2). Only 2 age-0 California halibut have been collected since early 2006. The largest individuals from this most recent year class reached legal size (22 inches or 559 mm) in fall 2007, which illustrates why the fishing was so productive in spring 2008.
Halibut fishing inside the estuary has remained strong since May 2008, but because there has not been successful spawning since 2005, this trend may not last. There is concern that with the increased fishing pressure on California halibut due to salmon and groundfish closures and increased public awareness, the spawning stock for this valuable fishery may be over harvested before we see another warm-water event suitable for strong halibut recruitment.
California Department of Fish and Game continues to collect data and assess the current regulations through a variety of research projects. The San Francisco Bay Study continues to provide valuable information on recruitment and age-class structure. The halibut tagging program provides data on growth rates and movement patterns. California Department of Fish and Games’s Marine Region has also recently implemented a special study which addresses mortality of released fish based on hook type and wound location and is also collecting otoliths and fin clips to determine natal origins of halibut within the San Francisco Estuary.
Figure 1 Annual abundance of juvenile (age-0 and age-1) and age-2+ California halibut, Bay Study otter trawl, February-October
010003000500070008183858789919395979901030507YearAbundanceindexAge-2+Age-0&1
IEP Newsletter 15
Figure 2 Sea surface temperatures (A) and anomalies (B) at Southeast Farallon Island, with periods of strong California halibut recruitment indicated by the red horizontal bars. PRBO unpublished data
References
Drawbridge, Mark Andrew. 1990. Feeding relationships, feeding activity and substrate preferences of juvenile California halibut, Paralychthys californicas, in coastal and bay habitats. M.S. Thesis, San Diego State University. 214 pgs
Fodrie, F. Joel and Lisa A. Levin. 2008. Linking juvenile habitat utilization to population dynamics of California halibut. Limnology and Oceanography, 53(2):799-812.
Gadomski, Dena M., and Steven M. Caddell. 1991. Effects of temperature on early-life-history stages of California halibut Paralichthys californicus. Fishery Bulletin 89(4):567-576.
Wertz, Stephen P., and Michael L. Domeier. 1997. Relative importance of prey items to California halibut. California Fish and Game 83(1):21-29.
Notes
Fraser, Keith. Operator of Loch Lomond Live Bait and Tackle shop. Personal communication, phone conversation 14 July, 2008
Point Reyes Bird Observatory Conservation Science (PRBO). Sea surface temperatures, unpublished data

Thanks that was some super information. So I expect that we will be trending out of such high numbers of halibut then. Is this correct? How many years does it take for young halibut to come back to the bay to spawn? I kept thinking all last year that there is going to be a price to all the halibut take that was happening.

I remember hearing a problem with catch and release halibut is that the nets split the tail causes an infection. Can't site my sources, but maybe someone can find a source for this information.

-Brian G

Yep, I've seen this written and heard it said, that nets are killers for fish like salmon and halibut, even though a lot of people think they're okay for catch and release.

With salmon, they scrape off the slime and scales, and with halibut, the net splits the tail which causes infection.

Yeah, I never use nets when C&R....just lip grippers and hold on, hoping for the best.

Well written and you make some good points. As much as meat fishing can put a dent in a population, I'm also not a big fan of catch and release. Don't get me wrong, I've done it, but I would prefer to catch and keep one salmon or halibut and call it an early day than hook, exhaust, and release 10 fish in a day that may or may not survive.

Tighter limits are definitely in the future. I know boat fishermen would kick and scream over this, but I would be all in favor of 5 rockfish per day, one ling, one cab, and a seasonal limit of say 40 rockfish, 5 lings, etc. You get the point.

Also, the Shelton fish release should be mandatory. As a rule, if I release a fish, even a tiny black and yellow, and it floats to the surface belly-up, I keep it even if I don't want it, and any little blacks I use for bait are part of my limit.

Maybe we need to make it harder to get a fishing license. Perhaps we should be required to take a test to identify different species, know the rules, and to teach everyone to respect the resource. That would weed out a lot of bad seeds.

There are 40 million people in this state and we have some remarkable fishing. I hope we can preserve it.

I absolutely agree with all of this.

I remember hearing a problem with catch and release halibut is that the nets split the tail causes an infection. Can't site my sources, but maybe someone can find a source for this information.

-Brian G

That issue is mentioned in this article.
http://www.marinadelreyhalibutderby.com/article1.html

Hope it helps! FB

P.S. Halibut don't fight much, so C&R fishing for them doesn't make a lot of sense.
      Once you've got some in the freezer, try playing a different game for awhile!

See, I'm not so sure about that.  Some fish such as tunas require constant movement to push O2 through their gills, hence why their survival rate after catch and release is very poor.  Usually the poor fish is too exhausted and can not survive.  Salmon are much of the same way, constantly moving or swimming behind a boulder and letting the current bring O2 to them, saving them lots of energy.  Fish that can remain still and perform buccal pumping, such as sedentary benthic fishes like halibut or suspending fishes such as rockfish shouldn't be too (or as) affected by this.  They are utilizing very little energy to deliver necessary oxygen to their gills.  I can imagine after a fight, the released halibut would just cruise to the bottom and recover.  Now if an angler was bait fishing and gut hooked the poor fish, then that's a whole other story.  Ever since I've started plugging for halis, I've lip hooked every single one.  Making the conscience decision to utilize barbless hooks as well as large wire hooks really cuts down on damaging the fish.  Honestly, I can't see much of a difference between plugging for halibut and plugging for large mouth bass, which is practically all catch and release.  Just my two cents, and I love plugging for halibut.  A halibut that's safely caught and released could surely continue with it's flattie life opposed to one that's gaffed hooked and filleted on a cutting board.

p.s. ichthyology was my favorite course at Poly.