Are groovy guides a thing of the past?

I haven't seen any actual grooved guides in awhile. I know braid has improved greatly over the years and even my cheapo Tiger Lite rod comes with aluminum oxide guides these days. Short of fishing with a muddy line is grooving even an issue anymore?

The metal quide rings will still groove. With the ceramics the biggest problems are inserts popping out or cracking.

With the ceramics the biggest problems are inserts popping out or cracking.

True! and annoying!

I've had inserts pop out of a couple of Super Seekers and a tip-top on a custom rod. All on party boats trolling for Salmon. I don't think those guides are well designed for 2.5# lead balls. Never had any problem with them in other types of fishing.

Erik will acid wrapping put less torque on the guides keeping them from popping out?

Guides popping out is mostly an issue of the quality of the guide and matching the frame type with the amount of stress the rod is likely to encounter in use (both fishing pressure and being banged around and such).

I've never had a Fuji guide fail me or any of my customers.  I've had several American Tackle Titan guides fail on rods I've built, which is extremely disappointing.  FYI... the Super Seekers use American Tackle Titan Turbo guides.

I'm back to using Fuji exclusively... well worth the extra money in my opinion, especially since they give me confidence that I won't have to rewrap a rod due to guide failures.

Acid wrapping can reduce the torque on the guides, but this is more a matter of less stress to the blank and wraps as opposed to the guide frame itself.

Shimmy's right on the grooving issue... even the lowest end ceramic will not groove from today's spectra lines.

EK

I would show you guys a ceramic guide the I wore down with braid, but I think I have tossed it already. Grooved with hivis power pro.

I would show you guys a ceramic guide the I wore down with braid, but I think I have tossed it already. Grooved with hivis power pro.

You should write them a letter...

Will PowerPro cut my guides?

No. Some of the first superlines were made of Kevlar Aramid. Aramids are very abrasive and would hurt your guides. Spectra Fiber is composed of polyethylene, a very slick plastic, in fact about the only material that is slicker than Spectra is Teflon. This fact combine with PowerPro’s enhanced Body Technology which make a rounder and smoother line, produces a line that is gentler on rod guides than the older style braids

That might be an idea. But let me point this out to you fellows. What power pro claims in it's web site may or may not be true depending of the state the braid is in.

First let me explain that is let my fish run till they tire before bringing them in. I use a little trout rod to catch bass ranging from 5# to 13#s. And I fought about 60 of them with this little rod in the last couple of years.

Having said that if the conditions are right and we have clean water then the dynema probably is very sleek and will not damage the guides as they claim. But I don't fish in ideal conditions and 70% of the time I am in mud puddles and after a full day of fishing my hivis yellow line will turn brown.

Then what would be rubbing against the guides in my little rod would be mud. And mud is much more abrasive than dynema. So my point is this, that no matter what kind of material your braid is made of, you will always have trouble with mud if you with in the same places I do. I think that explains why 60 fish would groove the cheapy aluminum oxide guides in my trout rod. So I would not be too confident that any one label of braid would save your lower end guides from grooving.

So I would not be too confident that any one label of braid would save your lower end guides from grooving.

 Compa that is a good point. In your case I'm sure the mud was a factor since thats where ceramics come from.
  When the first Superlines came out there were grooving issues. But the Alum oxide guides are 25 year old technology that was designed for mono and dacron. For H-D Spectra only use I prefer Silicon Carbide (SIC) guides as they are much harder than the old school Alum oxide. Here is a chart I found for comparison.

Vickers hardness
Stainless Steel (SS): 400
Chrome: 800-1000
Carbaloy: 1000
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400
Alconite : 1300-1500
NanoLite : 1800
Zirconia: 1000-1400
Zirconia PVD: 1600
SiC: 2200-2400

 Compa that is a good point. In your case I'm sure the mud was a factor since thats where ceramics come from.
  When the first Superlines came out there were grooving issues. But the Alum oxide guides are 25 year old technology that was designed for mono and dacron. For H-D Spectra only use I prefer Silicon Carbide (SIC) guides as they are much harder than the old school Alum oxide. Here is a chart I found for comparison.

Vickers hardness
Stainless Steel (SS): 400
Chrome: 800-1000
Carbaloy: 1000
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400
Alconite : 1300-1500
NanoLite : 1800
Zirconia: 1000-1400
Zirconia PVD: 1600
SiC: 2200-2400

I totally agree. But you will not find SIC guides in anything under $100 or anything under $150 for that matter.

Hardloy® : HialoyTM: Represent the hardest grade of Aluminum Oxide. Softer grades of Aluminum Oxide will groove over time and damage easily, which in turn damages your line. Strong enough to be mounted without shock rings for lighter weight and better heat dissipation. These materials are the most popular ceramic guide rings and are widely used on many production rods. To extend the life of a fishing rod using these guides, you may consider using Silicon Carbide for just the tip and the first guide up from the reel seat. This will be a tough set-up and not cost an arm and a leg.

This strategy will save some bucks. I usually use Fuji ceramics when I roll my own. Their quality has been the most reliable.

Hardloy® : HialoyTM: Represent the hardest grade of Aluminum Oxide. Softer grades of Aluminum Oxide will groove over time and damage easily, which in turn damages your line. Strong enough to be mounted without shock rings for lighter weight and better heat dissipation. These materials are the most popular ceramic guide rings and are widely used on many production rods. To extend the life of a fishing rod using these guides, you may consider using Silicon Carbide for just the tip and the first guide up from the reel seat. This will be a tough set-up and not cost an arm and a leg.

This strategy will save some bucks. I usually use Fuji ceramics when I roll my own. Their quality has been the most reliable.

Those are the ones I use also. But I still don't expect them to last for ever in the conditions that I fihs in. You may find that for the ocean they would be perfect. Oh, yea. I roll my own too. 

I recently saw/experienced a grooved guide.
Some 50lb Spiderwire Stealth cut a groove into the tip-top guide in a brand new 10ft Ugly Stick surf rod. I assume this happened because the angler was trying to free a snag in kelp/rocks, and applied too much pressure. The waves and kelp cause the line to sort of see-saw in and out, and the braid cut into the guide. The angler should've been pointing his rod straight at the snag and pulling....instead of pointing the rod tip up/to the side causing the rod to bend and load up.

I recently saw/experienced a grooved guide.
Some 50lb Spiderwire Stealth cut a groove into the tip-top guide in a brand new 10ft Ugly Stick surf rod.

Now we know that low end ceramics can still be cut by braid. Question is how much pressure is too much.