Bait cast reel controls?

  I know most of you use bait caster reels for most of your fishing, unlike me, I use spinning reels.  Never had the need for bait casters, but I've started using bait casters lately, and realizing there are a lot of dials and knobs to them.  I know the drag, (Big spoke wheel thing) thats easy, then theres a drage brake? or casting brake?
  I was up on Clearlake this past weekend, and had an opertunity to (again) to "Frog fish" some weeds back in the "Keys" (Not a friggin bite the entire weekend BTW on anything I threw) using an old Zebco loaded with 30lb spiderwire braid,  I was able to avoid the "Birdnest" but only after my buddy set the dial thing on the left side.  Casting brake?  
  How long is a typical learning curve for setting up and using a bait caster?  What would be the pro's Vs. Con of a bait caster over a spinning reel, with much less controls on it?
  In other words, why should I use a bait caster over a spinning reel?

Line twist primarily comes to mind, Troy. If you have a fish on that is taking line and you're cranking the handle, you're putting twist into the line.

A bird's nest occurs on a baitcaster when the line is not paying out as fast the reel is turning. Best thing to do is have your casting brake set tighter at the start. As you become accustomed to casting a particular distance, set them looser for a progressive longer catch. Of course, we all have our days when we do nothing right and end up with a bird's nest anyway.

I learned using a spool tightening knob and my thumb. Using the new brakes is taking me longer to get up to speed. One of my older reels actually requires me to take off the sideplate just to adjust the brakes (I just use it for straight drops now).

Howard

Troy, I taught myself to cast a variety of baitcasters and conventional reels over the last year.

I stand in the driveway and cast for a few minutes many days. yep, the neighbors do wonder what I am up to,  .

Now I can cast a revolving spool reel pretty darn well.

but it took quite a bit of practice and I am pretty coordinated as well as being mechanically inclined toward understanding how things work. not to mention I can be pretty focused on learning something.

you have to really want to do it (for whatever motivation. for me it was mainly curiosity) once beyond the stage of your life where learning is easy and opportunities plenty.

each reel and lure is different and you have to adjust a lot.

you should probably just stick with a spinning reel since in the end it doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference unless the fish is big.

the pros of a baitcaster is you can have more line and stopping power for less bulk and weight, plus more line control. by line control I mean you can put your thumb on the spool to stop the lure whenever you want, even while it is flying along. if the lure is about to fly through the neighbor's window, this is very useful.

the cons are that they suck for casting anything below 3/8 of an ounce. the weight is just not big enough to get the spool spinning easily.

the world record casting distances are set with conventional reels, not spinning reels, but in practical terms, this doesn't mean much. If you want to cast a big huge weight, a conventional reel can handle it better, but again, a spinning reel will do okay.

no amount of explaining is going to make you just know it. It took quite a bit of time for me to understand all the different options. and like I said, I have some aptitude.

There are often three different forms of spool braking. one is almost always there, the spool tension, it adjusts the side to side play of the spool, but you can adjust it so there is no play and there is actually some friction. the advice is usually to adjust it so the lure barely drops when you put the reel in freespool, but this will also prevent you from dropping your lure to the bottom with any speed. It works okay for flipping or pitching or casting, but not for rockfishing. Then there can be a centrifugal brake. these work well at the beginning of the cast to slow the speed. a little block (or blocks) flys out under centrifugal force inside the side plate and hits a ring, slowing the spool when it is spinning fast. Then there can be a magnetic force (but it is an eddy current and will work with a non ferrous spool, like an aluminum spool, but not a plastic spool), but that only goes into action after the spool has spun up and the eddy current generated, so only slows the spool towards the end of the cast.  some baitcasters use all three carefully to minimize backlashes.

finally the most important braking force. your thumb. very effective. but it needs to be trained.

the classic newell reels allow you to set spool tension, but that should be minimal or none, and nothing else.  it's all thumb. I can cast these pretty well now. you need a lot of thumb on anything above a 220.

if you really want to learn, go on ebay, get yourself a used abu ambassadeur 5501, a big spool of 12lb test, a 6'6 medium baitcasting rod, a 3/8 oz practice casting plug and just mess around until you feel some mastery. a whippy rod is easier to learn with. a heavier weight and lighter line is easier to learn with.

John

Thanks John

  I can cast the bait caster I have, but not with any confidence.  I find I'm allways too short on the cast for fear of the "The bird nest"  I realize it's going to take practice.  Thanks again for the spool braking 101.

Troy

Another trick is to let about 40 feet of line out of the reel and then put a piece of clear tape across the line. Stand in you yard and practice casting. With the tape on the line you can avoid the bird nest. As you get the hand of it, you can remove the tape.

Additionally, the heavier the lure, the easier the cast. Point your reel at about a 45 degree angle and release the spool (push the button with your thumb). The lure should slowly fall to the ground. I'm talking real slowly fall to the ground. That should get you in the ballpark for the tension of the spool (usually the real small knob on the same side of the drag wheel).

Good luck!

CHEERS!

Another trick to avoid a potential bird's nest is that, when the lure hits the water, use your thumb on the spool to stop the spool from rotating for a second, to avoid over-rotation, and then letting the lure or bait continue its drop into the depths.

Theres not much to add that has not been said about baitcasters. I will tell you this I only used spinning reels all the time until I got involved in bass fishing and started to use baitcasting reels. Once you get your confidince up I think you will love them. I use them for most of my fishing situations. Unless I fish really light tackle. They are very accurite and strong. Let me make one suggestion for frog fishing use 50 to 60 lb braid and a heavy rod with a bait caster.
Hit the delta later in the year when it is the hottest. The heavy line is to get the fish out of the mat your fishing. Once you catch a frog fish you will be hooked for life on frog fishing. Look for a hookup later in the year


Kevin

Amen about line twist.. baitcasters are much better for not getting it.  Another thing, don't overload the spool when putting on fresh line... If it is too full it interferes with the levelwind and you will get a backlash every cast.  I think the biggest advantage of all to a baitcaster is the ability to use your thumb to stop a cast like jmairey said.  You said you come up short a lot, but once you get past the fear of a backlash, you can just cast past your target, stop the spool, and drop right in on the spot.  More on the thumb, and even more important IMO: using it when fighting fish to control them.  Sometimes being able to slam your thumb down to turn a running fish is a lifesaver.  I have kept sturgeon out of anchor ropes, bass outta cover, and steelhead from simply running away with all my line down a rapid.  All reels, except those lame closed-face things, have a place in fishing, but for big, fast fish I really do feel baitcasters are the only game in town.

Another trick to avoid a potential bird's nest is that, when the lure hits the water, use your thumb on the spool to stop the spool from rotating for a second, to avoid over-rotation, and then letting the lure or bait continue its drop into the depths.

yes, this is pretty much a requirement. which means if you lose sight of the lure (or are casting in the dark), or the lure hits something before you expected it to, those are the times you get a backlash,  .

once you get a backlash (I hope you bought a nice big bargain spool of mono from a place like www.ffo-tackle.com):

all backlashes are not created equal. if you get one that does't look too bad, just strip out line (if the spool stops spinning, spin it the other way a bit to loosen the tangle, then start again) until the spool looks good. then reel the line back in between your thumb and forefinger to keep tension on it. reel slow and you won't get kinks.

if it's a backlash from hell, just get out the scissors and cut out line until your spool is clear. you can operate on a less than full spool just fine. often it looks like your entire spool is part of the backlash, but then you find out that giant mess was just from the top 1/4 of the spool and you have plenty line left to fish with.

ah, another advantage of a baitcaster: the spool does not have to be full to be able to cast well like on a spinning reel. you can operate with a half-empty spool pretty well. in fact it's a good way to practice casting.

jptroy, just get yourself some cheap sacraficial mono, some scissors and go have a few backlashes. soon you will magically have 1/10th as many and won't really know why, somehow your arm and thumb and eye and brain learn unconciously I guess.

J

  I have a nice used dental pick with 2 pointed ends thats very usefull in dismantling what birdnests I've had so for. Fortunatly the 30lb braid seems to untangle easily (So far)

  Thanks again fior the tips!
Troy

I started out with baitcasting reels as a little kid, still love them, still get the occasional backlash when my thumb loses a bit of its muscle memory, no matter what the commercials say. To be honest, spinning reels weren't widely available in the USA back then (like the handle says, I'm OLD). While I use both, there's another type of reel you might want to consider if you're trolling for larger fish: it's simply called a conventional reel. Typically, it has no levelwind, and you can't cast it worth a crap unless you're really talented - and determined. But look into an Avet, perhaps an Accurate. A smaller Avet or similar with lever drag is a wonderful tool for halibut, and you can learn to make a very good levelwind with your thumb. It's not for those long, pinpoint casts, but if you're wanting to winch up a big one, it'll do the job better than anything else. A bonus is that, if you're just letting out line for trolling, and hauling in fish, you're highly unlikely to see a backlash.

Hey Brother...It's all about what you like and what you can afford $$$$$.

the ol spinners are great and easy to use....I have a dozen of them.

the casters are also great (stronger in my opinion), but like anything...You got to want it...

So if you pick the bait caster my advice is...practice, practice practice.

Good luck,

S.