Zebra and Quagga Mussels

Hey J,

I do know of at least one species that has been found to eat zerbra mussels, and that's the round goby another non-native from the same native region as the zebra mussels that has made it's way into the great lakes.  Other species of fish, crayfish, duck, etc.. will eat them as well it's just that they never do so in large enough quantities to be considered as a control method.

Hey Judd,

No hard feelings. Please note that my latest post was after midnight and I may have been a bit punchy.  Anyway, is one species better then another?  In some ways it could be argued that invasive species that do well in new habitats are in fact better.. better adapted, larger numbers, more competitive, etc..  (note that not all non-natives are invasive and under certain circumstances natives can be invasive as well).  For the most part invasive species are managed on a scale equivalent to how much economic impacts they have on society.  In the case of zebra mussels it's their impact on water intake, power plants, etc.. that fund the research and get the managers and politicians all worked up.   

As an ecologist I have nothing to do with actual management.  I monitor and study their effects on the ecosystem (i.e. the ecological impacts).  I'm personally less interested in the damage a zebra mussel might do to some underwater pipes.  Actually, I'm particularly interested in non-native species as large scale experiments in biogeography.   As man increases the rate in which species can colonize new areas, many endemic species are displaced and the overall diversity in the world decreases.  I suppose we could argue about whether that is a bad thing as well.  I for one, like knowing that the world doesn't consist of only humans, rats, cockroaches, dandelions, carp and zebra mussels.

Brian

Hey J,

I do know of at least one species that has been found to eat zerbra mussels, and that's the round goby another non-native from the same native region as the zebra mussels that has made it's way into the great lakes.  Other species of fish, crayfish, duck, etc.. will eat them as well it's just that they never do so in large enough quantities to be considered as a control method.

sounds like the crabs don't eat enough mussells judd?

Now the goby thing, that is cool! Can the goby eat enough to make a difference? What eats the goby? any fish we like, like stripers? that sounds okay.

mussels->goby's->stripers.

why can't we just spend the money we were going to spend on hassling boaters on bringing in some gobies instead?

there should be a less-hassle/most-happiness quotient in all this which is always missing from the last minute efforts of most of the retards that are in charge.

I for one, like knowing that the world doesn't consist of only humans, rats, cockroaches, dandelions, carp and zebra mussels.

Well, that sounds nice but also is kind of silly and a bit like you are trying to play god. why do you get to choose one way or the other? how liberal of you to think you know best way to spend my money! may the most adaptable species win as far as I'm concerned.

my issue with spending all this money to stop the stupid mussels is that you could have spent it on something better. since it's hopeless anyways, why spend the money in the first place? it's just stupid. money is not endless, although I guess as a liberal you assume it is and that you can just tax the poor people some more?

if the world settles down a bit, those humans rats, cockroaches and dandelions will get a chance to evolve into something more specialized. but as long as there is a mess of change going on, the (over?) specialized forms will just have to suffer.

right now you are just getting in the way with all this resistance to migratory species. and doing it in a way that is just a big hassle to the average tax payer.

J

seems like a better way to conduct invasive species research is to ask what goes along with that invader? and if necessary speed up the invasion of the other species, so it's all in balance, rather than hopelessly try to stop the invader.

sure you might like the old balance better, but that's the way it goes sometimes. It seems the research should be on identifying the main balancing species.

Like with the mussells. just identify what eats them, like the goby, identify what might eat the goby and just get it over with and bring over the mussels and the goby both.

John

John,

If you're okay with homogenizing the worlds biota maybe you should start a lobbing group for that purpose (maybe Judd will be your first donor).  In the meantime, there are plenty of anti-invasive species lobbies out there (farmers, power plants, water facilities, and most environmental groups, etc..) that you'll be competing with for face time with legislators.   I think you'll find yourself out numbered and out spent by these lobby groups the result of which will be that government money will continue to be earmarked for invasive species research and management.

Very little money these days actually goes to eradication as most of these projects are in fact giant money pits.  Most invasive species management now attempts to deal with the problem in the early stages.. early detection/rapid response for those things that can be controlled and education and vector management for preventing further spread.  You'll be hard pressed to find others willing to accelerate the process to "get it over with".

Back to the gobies... the gobies have displaced native sculpins in the Great Lakes (yes, they're just like little freshwater cabezons), not to the point of extinction, but their numbers have dropped dramatically.  These sculpins used to be a preferred food of the native smallmouth bass and it seems that smallmouth don't do as well trying to capture gobies.  As for the actual impact of gobies on the mussels, I don't think they're providing any real control either at this point so I'm not sure how much of a balance they really are.

Brian

Well the last thing the delta needs is the zebra mussle.  In the late 1980's the overbite clam corbula amurensis was introduced into the estuary and we have not had "good" algal blooms since.  The productivity of the system has declined and the anchovy have all but abandoned using the estuary.  Another freshwater filter feeder would be very bad news!

Jim

John,

If you're okay with homogenizing the worlds biota maybe you should start a lobbing group for that purpose (maybe Judd will be your first donor).  In the meantime, there are plenty of anti-invasive species lobbies out there (farmers, power plants, water facilities, and most environmental groups, etc..) that you'll be competing with for face time with legislators.   I think you'll find yourself out numbered and out spent by these lobby groups the result of which will be that government money will continue to be earmarked for invasive species research and management.

Very little money these days actually goes to eradication as most of these projects are in fact giant money pits.  Most invasive species management now attempts to deal with the problem in the early stages.. early detection/rapid response for those things that can be controlled and education and vector management for preventing further spread.  You'll be hard pressed to find others willing to accelerate the process to "get it over with".

Back to the gobies... the gobies have displaced native sculpins in the Great Lakes (yes, they're just like little freshwater cabezons), not to the point of extinction, but their numbers have dropped dramatically.  These sculpins used to be a preferred food of the native smallmouth bass and it seems that smallmouth don't do as well trying to capture gobies.  As for the actual impact of gobies on the mussels, I don't think they're providing any real control either at this point so I'm not sure how much of a balance they really are.

Brian

good idea, I'm sure judd will contribute,  .
maybe we should also start a  'give a chainsaw to a brazillian' group so they can finish cutting down their forests like we did ours, 

this goby thing is interesting. don't gobies look like little cabezon too?
sounds like somebody needs to study these gobies and small mouth a lot more. seems like a good research project to use up some of that excess taxpayer money.

Well the last thing the delta needs is the zebra mussle.  In the late 1980's the overbite clam corbula amurensis was introduced into the estuary and we have not had "good" algal blooms since.  The productivity of the system has declined and the anchovy have all but abandoned using the estuary.  Another freshwater filter feeder would be very bad news!

Jim

that's just cause you invasive species dudes weren't on it studying the gobies and other eaters of these filter feeders,    slackers! 

I mean, the clams and mussels just sit there waiting to be eaten. hello! hello! hello!

doesn't seem like it should be a challenge to find something that can swim around and crunch them up.

sturgeon eat them like candy, BUT most of them just pass right through and get pooped out and the ones that are consumed, transfer Selenium and Mercury into the sturgeon, so if your pregnant you shouldn't eat too much sturgeon. 

Jim

sturgeon eat them like candy, BUT most of them just pass right through and get pooped out and the ones that are consumed, transfer Selenium and Mercury into the sturgeon, so if your pregnant you shouldn't eat too much sturgeon. 

Jim

it's been awhile since I've been pregnant or eaten sturgeon, so I think I'm good, but thanks for the warnings! 

may the most adaptable species win as far as I'm concerned.

I think I'll try this one at home, I hate pulling weeds, but what does your lawn look like?

mickfish.......those "star thistle" guys.....they are fiercely awful.

Typically I root for the "invasive" guys because they are...well...more competent.

But I've pulled enough star-thistle needles out of my road-bike's tires that they are one brand of plant that I would condemn to the fires of hell.

Judd

PS....I was out at the Cosumnes River Park fishing yesterday.
Got six 2-pound Crappie.
Beautiful day.
That's a gorgeous area.

may the most adaptable species win as far as I'm concerned.

I think I'll try this one at home, I hate pulling weeds, but what does your lawn look like?

I got the mow and blow team. one week they mow the dandelions, right now they are mowing clover.

I think there is some bermuda in there as well as fescue and a few others.

definitely the most adaptable species is the rule for my lawn, but when it's freshly mown, it's all good!

Santa Clara Valley Water District is taking action to prevent the spread of Zebra and Quagga Mussels.  Read all about it...

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,12932.0.html

saw it. typical stupid bureaucrat response. freedom always suffers.

John........you and I think and react in much the same way.

The first Bureaucratic Reaction is to Prove Overwhelming Need For Itself: by assuming and projecting as much "burden" and "administrative responsibility" as possible.

By declaring mussels a terrible threat---a case is made, (without having had to make a case) for enforcement and interdiction.

By assuming the mantle of "Being A Watershed," EBMUD easily and without contest declares a parallel assumption that "indescriminite unsupervised human intrusion into EBMUD lands would result in danger to purity of public drinking waters"  (a scientific fiction) ......and as a result gain authority to post "No Trespassing" signs on a few million acres.   As a parallel result EBMUD avoids responsibility of building cycling and walking trails with sited picnic benches and improvements fifteen feet above the Highwater Marks of .....gee.....San Pablo reservoir, Briones Reservoir, San Leandro Reservoir.....to name just THREE...!!!...
There is no West-side (the PRETTY side) trail...for the length of Del Valle.   

(Corps. of Engineers.....there is no Near High Waterline circumferential hiking/bicycle trail of Lake Sonoma....and yu'know, there should be..!!!...).

I think I'm of the opinion that all of the positions of public commissions, boards-of-directors, and policy committees, of all public and quasi-public agencies whose decisions affect access and usages of any lands or facilities nominally owned by the public, should be limited to two-year tenures and chosen only by public election with no provision whatever for "political interim appointment" ..... and that all tenures of each board, begin and end, on the exact same date, for the very purpose of encouragement of new policy salients and for the very purpose of eliminating "a sense of institutional history" ......which "sense" has proven to be a great public evil, in that it leads to burocratic ossification.

Yes.
That is what I think.
And that is the way I would do it.

Judd