Wader Myth test video

If your new to this sport and reading all these post with baited breath let me tell you young brethren you can alleviate all your fears by taking a class at a kayak shop in your area. What to wear, how to paddle, how to save yourself and others can all be learned in a weekend workshop. Seek out a trained and certified instructor. There is a whole class of miscreant bums out there that have forsaken careers and a decent living space to work for peanuts bringing you the latest techniques and standards. Support your local kayak shop, support your local instructor/Guide and this sport will start to get a lot safer than learning what to do off the internet. At the very least try these things out under the supervision of a veteran Kayak angler, someone you know who knows what they're doing.

So much of what people know of waders and the waders of Death comes from hyperbole in the media and stories handed down from Grandfather to father from father to son, of a story they once heard. A friend of their next door neighbors’ second cousin knew a guy that had a friend that died wearing waders. Is that not where many myths come from?
I have no doubt that the old bulky rubber waders would have been a tougher issue because they would fill so much faster than the soft breathables.

Here is a little experiment that you can all do at home today if you have a couple of small items.
•   A bucket water
•   A plastic bag
•   A couple of rocks
•   A piece of wood.

First fill the bucket with water
Then place the plastic bag in the water
Does it sink? No
Fill the bag with water, does it sink? No it is neutrally buoyant and will still float just below the surface.

Take the bag out of the water and empty it.
Now place a rock in the empty open plastic bag and lower it into the water. Watch what happens.
The bag will compress around the rock, and yes the bag sinks.
The bag is sinking because the rock is negatively buoyant, not because of the water.
If you fill the bag with water the bag will float up, with the rock sittting on the bottom of the bucket.

Now try this with the piece of wood. The wood floats inside the bag filled with water.  Because wood is positively buoyant nothing sinks. With the bag flooded with water the bags sinks a bit and the wood floats.

Now try to get a balance of wood and rock to make the setup neutrally buoyant, similar to what a person is. The combinations will find its state and sit there neither sinking nor rising.
Now put a PFD and wading belt on it and it will be floating on the surface: lol:

This is a pretty easy way to dispel the sinking waders, water in is the same weight as water out. If you are buoyant you are not sinking to the bottom.
Do I want to swim against the force of this, not at all.
But again my in the pool experiment showed that that with the soft breathable waders I was getting very little water in, even without the PFD and Wader. And as you saw I was jumping in and going underwater. I still had plenty of time for a quick self rescue before I had so much water I could not get out.

Sure if you throw raging rivers, pounding surf and hurricane winds into the mix this would be horrible, but how many go out in those conditions. IF those are your conditions of choice then a dry suit or wetsuit is certainly the best choice.
And again practice practice practice that self rescue.

We will do part two next week with the flooding of the waders.
Stay tuned

Swell, I couldn't agree more. Take a class it will make a world of difference in your skills. IF you can't do a conventional self rescue, a skilled instructor will teach you alternative methods. You will also learn how to save a friend that maybe never took the class. You will also learn to be a better paddler and that is a huge bonus.

My 2 cents:

Take one slightly un-athletic kayak fisherman who has trouble with self-rescue on a flat lake.  Fill waders up slightly with water and it makes it that much harder for that person to get back in the kayak.  The more they flounder, the worse their predicament gets... especially with the freezing waters around here.

Jim was outfitted with all the right gear.  This is great in theory, but not the most realistic.  Some yakkers have all the right gear, but most are a hodgepodge of miscellaneous yak apparel.  Especially with a PFD, no one is gonna sink if their waders fill up, but every ounce makes it that much harder to get back into the kayak.  Most of the kayakers that have spoken up on this thread are experienced enough to get back on their kayaks without too much difficulty...

As far as I am concerned, if you can't self rescue you have no business being out on water over your head. Particularly if fishing solo.

As far as I am concerned, if you can't self rescue you have no business being out on water over your head. Particularly if fishing solo.

Can I get an A-MEN? 

-Allen

We're pioneering River fishing techniques up here you guys are clueless about unless you read our post.

I took Jim kayak steelheading last year...he's seen it. 

And as I recall I out fished you in your own back yard.
 No further explanation is needed.

It sounds like waders are a reasonable solution anytime comfort is more of a concern than safety. which if you are experienced and careful is a common occurrence. The analogy of not wearing a helmet while driving your car around town is a good one.

I could see using waders in lakes and santa cruz, but I had wind and swell come up when I was alone and 5 miles out over soldier's field outside of the moss landing jaws in april last year and was happy I had the surf leash to attach me to the kayak and the wetsuit for worry-free protection against hypothermia (for a few hours anyways) then for the trip back in the rain.

the drysuit seems to be the highest mix of safety and comfort so far, although I still don't like the potential failure mode from puncture. also the cost! but if you got one and like it, I'm sure it's great.

I hear mickfish saying it is hard to f*ckup using a wetsuit. using waders takes some common sense. I think like he does on this issue.

seems like a bad idea to be promoting the option that takes some common sense. The people that already knew didn't need telling, as scwafish notes. Those that did will probably walk away with the wrong lesson, like probably amphibian,  .

It's a bit like do as I say and not as I do. I don't wear a helmet skateboarding in the street. I would not go and make a video showing that I have skateboarded for a long time in the street and never had a concussion. just not a good idea.

Btw, do they make waders with a pee hole/zipper like drysuits? I would need that before I put myself in a bucket and paddle out,  .

Best,
J

As far as I am concerned, if you can't self rescue you have no business being out on water over your head. Particularly if fishing solo.

Thank you, Master of the Obvious.   

While I completely agree with your statement, I have no idea what you're referencing.  I did not mention anything regarding "can't self rescue" or "water over your head"!


I'm sure you'd agree with this statement - "many newer and/or out of shape paddlers would have greater difficulties getting back into a kayak as easily as some of the more experienced yakkers would".  For example, with your experience, you have no problem with quickly flipping your yak over and getting back in.  Likewise, on an average day on the water, I routinely get in and out of my kayak several times (freediving).  On the other hand, some yakkers(even experienced ones) take quite a bit more time to wiggle their way back on board.  This can be due to many reasons - bad technique, low strength, panic, fat belly, etc.   

Someone who is able to self-rescue themselves(even slowly) with a wetsuit may suddenly find it near impossible to climb back on their kayak with waders full of water.  Basically, the wader introduces more potential risks.  I think waders can be great... when used in the right circumstances (mix of conditions, experience, etc.)  Conversely, I also think that your "Exploding the Myth" leads people into a false sense of security.  Your video is a very good example of how a proper wader setup can be effective yak apparel; however, it does not depict the reality of what happens when the average yakker with a non-optimal wader setup gets dunked.


jmairey's opening lines echo my sentiments:
"It sounds like waders are a reasonable solution anytime comfort is more of a concern than safety. which if you are experienced and careful is a common occurrence."

Next I'm trying to convince Jim to flood a 'yak with a couple pool noodles stuck inside. How many will it take to float it  well enough to pump out the water without a major struggle?   

Excellent idea! this is better than survivor-man!

But I think we know the answer is more than two as the marmot and thornely showed last year with their experiments along these lines. But even two keeps you above mini-sub status.

I'd also like to see you jump out of your yak in a 20 knot wind and wait 5 seconds then try to catch up with your yak. wearing waders,  .  beathable ones. in 49 degree water with a 10 foot swell and 4 foot seas.

hmm, while we are at it, dumping 20 gallons of pigs blood through the scuppers at pigeon point in early september would also be cool!

what else... How about jumping into 49 degree water in breathable waders with no insulation and floating for 2 hours and then attempting a self-rescue!

(hey, I think we are going to kill off Sammons and Pal eventually here,  ).

John

As far as I am concerned, if you can't self rescue you have no business being out on water over your head. Particularly if fishing solo.

Can I get an A-MEN? 

-Allen

Amen!

and.....Can't resist....

And as I recall I out fished you in your own back yard.
 No further explanation is needed.

I'll say amen to that too.  (PAL and Jim know what I mean  heehee......)

BTW, I am a preacher about wetsuits in the ocean.  Dress for disaster....  But have to admit, I started occasionally wearing my neoprene waders a couple years ago, and dry pants (sorta) and dry top last year.  Still will use my wetsuit if I'm going out far in the ocean and alone.  Also if I'm solo going out far, like Moss or maybe solo wild coast fishing, I will use my longboard leash while I'm out there (Not during launch or landing)

Jim and PAL, I love the video.  Instant Classic.  I admit to a nervous moment or two as Jim starting pulling his pants off as well. You make it clear that you are talking about calm flat water, open ocean fishing.

(hey, I think we are going to kill off Sammons and Pal eventually here 

Nah, just Jim. I'm content with aiming the camera and thinking up new ways to torture our test subject. 

As far as I am concerned, if you can't self rescue you have no business being out on water over your head.

Word UUUUP!

Z

BTW, I am a preacher about wetsuits in the ocean.  Dress for disaster....  But have to admit, I started occasionally wearing my neoprene waders a couple years ago, and dry pants (sorta) and dry top last year.  Still will use my wetsuit if I'm going out far in the ocean and alone.  Also if I'm solo going out far, like Moss or maybe solo wild coast fishing, I will use my longboard leash while I'm out there (Not during launch or landing)

yep. but it's kind of a "do as I say, not as a I do" situation. you know the limits. the average newb does not have the judgement borne of experience.  and a video is not going to give them that.

they are blinded by the fillets, 

putzing around in the kelp beds in santa cruz is pretty much wader territory if you don't fear needing to pee more than being wet (which I do).  actually the mooch dry-butt system, or freddies surf trunks work fine there too, considering you sometimes see a chick in a bikini go by on a paddle board while you are out there,  .

nonetheless, my boys are wearing some farmer johns and my wife is not paddling anywhere without some thermal protection too.

the davenport area is a whole different story, so is moss.

John

yep. but it's kind of a "do as I say, not as a I do" situation. you know the limits. the average newb does not have the judgement borne of experience.  and a video is not going to give them that.

John

Yeah, that's true, no argument from me.  I just need to be honest about it.  Funny, I really started wearing the dry pants and top when in Alaska last year.  Just so much more comfortable and warm, and easier to maintain or adjust my temperature when needed.  I will be going with that set up ore and more, i thnk.

Allen

late to the game as usual!~

i still think that folks are missing the point, its not the stupid waders filling up with water and magically being dragged under that's the worry- its the fricking freezing ass water and ripping crazy currents up here.
Any of these good sturgeon tides- you fall out while anchored up, you'll be LUCKY to grab the yak before you rocket down current.

Water's only 51 on a good day (was 48-49 a few weeks back when i was out). at those temps ya got like 30-60 min.  That's probably just long enough to watch the richmond bridge go past, as you try to swim back to marin (if you miss the marin islands).

With that said--i'm out there with fleece pants, waders, belt, pfd, VHF on my body, and a paddling jacket now about half the time. I'd never do it in the ocean, or the russian and i don't do it on the really big tides.

calculate your own risks, make your own decisions

I'm banking on being able to hail another yak, or boat, or at worst case being able to catch the eddy by the quarry, brickyard, or the marin islands and pull out there.