Wader Myth test video

Swell, first you admit that you ran into trouble because you were not wearing the gear properly, no belt.
Then in a follow up you tell the tale of your friend wearing the gear going through rapids and being just fine because he was wearing them properly. So what point exactly were you trying to make.
In the video we made a point several times of saying to wear a PFD, wear the Belt, and the Jacket was an even better extra barrier. Also know how to self rescue. I believe I also stated a couple of times that for the conditions that most of us fish in, flat water, open water, this was a good setup. I am not wearing this during my surfing outings or whitewater runs. We are talking about kayak fishing here, flat water, open water slow moving water, punching in and out through the surf. Not repetitive surfing and running white water. I think that, the way I was floating, if I fell in moving current I would be floating right next to my kayak, which of course is moving in the same current.
If anyone is misled by what was presented in the video, then that is their issue. I think we were pretty clear.

We are talking about kayak fishing here, flat water, open water slow moving water, punching in and out through the surf. Not repetitive surfing and running white water.

I was yak fishing alone in Baja.  The wind came up fast and I did something stupid and fell off my boat.  I was not able to catch it.  I swam to the beach which took about 45 - 50 minutes with my life vest.  I wasn't in danger and the water was warm so I was OK.  But had that happened to me up here in 50 degree water without a wetsuit, my chance of survival would have been about 50%.

So the lesson is that there is no cookie cutter approach.  Sometimes waders are the answer, other times not so much.  I fish alone a lot and enjoy it, so I wear a wetsuit when I'm alone.  Think about what you going to do before and make the appropriate choice. Intelligence is a survival trait.

Jim No harm no foul. This is Norcal and you're socal so we'll razz you a bit when you post but we love ya. You've always opened up great discussions on this board and all have benefited from your tireless efforts to promote this sport. I was one of our young acolytes working at Aqua-adventures for Jen when you were doing classes for us there and promoting the new prowler. You were all about a wetsuit back then.
In all seriousness though our conditions both out on the open ocean and in our coastal rivers are more gnarly and technical than anywhere in Cen/Socal. You guys don't get to define what kayak fishing is based on your conditions. We're pioneering River fishing techniques up here you guys are clueless about unless you read our post. Not everyone up here is charging but me and my crew are definitely pushing the envelope of running whitewater in a fish yak.
My point in challenging the premise of your video was to inject that this audience up here is a bit more savvy because the conditions demand it. They want to see the real thing in a demo. I talk about my own mishaps and likewise that of my friends to illustrate what can go right and what can go wrong. If my friend was just wearing the overalls as I've caught him doing before this could a more tragic story.

Mike(mcfish)-Good observations, good points. I like my drysuit because sometimes I do wear it like chest waders. It's not just tied around my waist though, I do wear a tightly cinched wader belt when I do that. The river has to be almost lake like when I chillin that relaxed. You can see from my picture above on the Smith that I'm fully dry-suited up and ready to swim that 50 degree water. I've been at it long enough that I'm a good judge of the conditions. More than that though, I am one with Nature. Everyone of my sense faculties is on super mode when in big water and the feeling of aliveness beats anything you'll catch that day. 

I have never been all about wetsuits and other than surfing have never worn one on my kayak. I think they are too hot, too cold and too confining. Back in the old days I used to wear wetsuit shorts and then paddling clothing on my upper body. But that was years ago. The older I have gotten the less I like the cold. I have been doing the paddling pants, jacket and booties for several years now and frankly again getting old and tired of cold feet and water rushing down the legs to my ass. As Paul stated we have been holdouts on the wader issue while many all over the country have switched.
I have made the switch and am in heaven and am kicking myself for not doing it sooner. Man I love to have warm socks and dry feet.
Everyone needs to make the decision themselves based on the conditions that they will be facing as well and their own skills. I certainly would not recommend the waders to someone that can't do a simple self rescue.
If I was to drive my car on the track in a race, you can bet I will have on a helmet, but I am not driving around the city that way.

Another scenario is fishing San Pablo Bay. You fall off your kayak there you are not going to get back on. The tide rips way too fast for that to happen. I would have to think about swimming towards shore depending on how close I was. If you are at Shell Banks or the pump house forget about it. You better have a buddy right next to you.

Not to take anything away from your post, Tote, but I flipped my yak in rushing SPB current, at Shell Bank, and was back in my kayak in under 30 seconds...maybe faster.

I'm always amazed at how many people go out kayaking without ever having tried a re-entry or other form of self rescue before hand.  It's pretty easy once you know how, but I've seen guys flounder in the water for several minutes.  In at least one case, it got to the point that I and a few others had to come over and when that happens it's no longer considered a self rescue.

Brian

Does anyone leash themselves to their kayak when on the ocean? I don't think current could take your yak away because you are in the same current but I know the wind can take stuff faster than you can recover and then swim.

Does anyone leash themselves to their kayak when on the ocean? I don't think current could take your yak away because you are in the same current but I know the wind can take stuff faster than you can recover and then swim.

Personally no, but here's a link for you..
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,3520.0.html

AlohaDan is a big proponent of leashing oneself to your yak ... http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/948607442/m/6921061502?r=6921061502#6921061502

-Allen

Another scenario is fishing San Pablo Bay. You fall off your kayak there you are not going to get back on. The tide rips way too fast for that to happen. I would have to think about swimming towards shore depending on how close I was. If you are at Shell Banks or the pump house forget about it. You better have a buddy right next to you.

Not to take anything away from your post, Tote, but I flipped my yak in rushing SPB current, at Shell Bank, and was back in my kayak in under 30 seconds...maybe faster.

Can I assume you never lost contact with your kayak or leashed paddle?? Because if you did and you made it back in 30 seconds then the US Olympic swim team needs you.

Another scenario is fishing San Pablo Bay. You fall off your kayak there you are not going to get back on. The tide rips way too fast for that to happen. I would have to think about swimming towards shore depending on how close I was. If you are at Shell Banks or the pump house forget about it. You better have a buddy right next to you.

Not to take anything away from your post, Tote, but I flipped my yak in rushing SPB current, at Shell Bank, and was back in my kayak in under 30 seconds...maybe faster.

Hey Dustin, how did you get all the water out of your kayak?   



-Allen

We're pioneering River fishing techniques up here you guys are clueless about unless you read our post.

I took Jim kayak steelheading last year...he's seen it. 

There was a good idea in that link. What if you are anchored in a strong current and you fall out? You get swept away while the yak stays there unless you are leashed.

There was a good idea in that link. What if you are anchored in a strong current and you fall out? You get swept away while the yak stays there unless you are leashed.

When we fish San Pablo Bay we paddle to our destination and anchor. We are anchored the majority of the time. That was my whole point about falling out. You are not getting back on. Definitely do not tether yourself to the kayak. Better to fall out and be drifting away than to possibly be held under the water because the current is so strong.

Jim Sammon's video shows the only sensible approach when you see something that looks like a threat and you just don't know how it'll work for you.

Bsteves said about the exact same thing:  "I'm always amazed at how many people go out kayaking without ever having tried a re-entry or other form of self rescue before hand."

This applies to the question:   "Can I swim faster than the wind will be driving my boat away from me?"    It applies to the question:  "Do I really wanna put blood in the water alongside my boat...???..."

What Sammons & bsteves are emphatically saying is:    No one is going to be out there with you when "the bad thing" happens.   The best way to know how a thing will work for you, is to do what Sammons did:  Just actually try it out.

Conceptually----lots of things seem easy and orderly.    But bsteves is tell'in ya:  Maybe, yu'know, a guy of YOUR body-size ...???....well, maybe it won't be all that "conceptually easy" to climb back aboard your SOT...???.....

Like....try it, dude.....
Like....think it out, dude....
Like....you're gunna be 100% owner of whatever plays out....

Judd