How NOT to make a surf landing..

Good point Judd. I haven't seen any yakfishers  use 'em but doesn't mean they won't wok well. If you look at the pics PAL posted of the guy bracing in that wave it's pretty easy to see that the rider and yak are basically doing two different things. The straps might be the key to having more control. Should give 'em a try.

Z

I like to jump out way before danger looms. this usually means before I can stand up.

I have come to shore in some he-uge surf while surfing a surfboard in nor-cal and mexico, sometimes over gnarly huge cobble stones and rocks. I wish I could say I rode to the shore each time, but it's not true, I got washed in more than a few times. my approach with the kayak is derived from those experiences.

the key is to 1) get out of the boat and 2) get the boat between you and the shore.  then get washed onto shore in a semi-controlled manner.

If you jump out and your feet don't hit the bottom (freddie!), swim to the stern (back) of the kayak fast and hold on to the toggle.

as a human sea-anchor you'll come to shore behind your boat (very important!), not dry, but very safe.

once you are right at the shoreline, you have the option of letting the boat wash up, pulling it out stern first by the toggle, running to the bow and grabbing that (my usual approach in medium surf)

no wipeouts ever for me using this method, (kayak doesn't flip over), but some might classify this landing as less than beautiful since a wet dismount is involved.

I attribute most of the video wipeouts to staying in the kayak way too long.

riding the kayak onto the sand is for showing off. I suspect that's why the videos are there! a video of a guy swimming in behind his kayak would be much more boring.

knee straps and bracing is for people that roll their yaks, wear helmets, etc.

John

i used to use my thigh straps all the time before i started fishing from it. then i noticed nobody else uses them. i figuered there must be a reason. so i stopped bringing them. i'm gonna start bringing them again.

That first wipeout video was hilarious! After the video ended, I clicked on another one and noticed that it was Monastery Beach in Carmel. He doesn't bail though.

IMO: Knee straps are good to have but not necessary. When we took the HMB Surf Class, none of us had any but learned to brace properly as the day went on.

Have you ever tried a pair of thigh braces?  It's like night and day.  The control you get with them is far beyond anything you can get without them.  For all you river runners, try 'em there too.  You'll get a lot out of them.

knee straps and bracing is for people that roll their yaks, wear helmets, etc.

Knee straps and bracing are for everyone.  Yak control is fundamental.

-Allen

riding the kayak onto the sand is for showing off. I suspect that's why the videos are there! a video of a guy swimming in behind his kayak would be much more boring.


John

I'm not sure riding the kayak onto the sand is showing off, but for me I think the bail out and swim in method would just be best sometimes, and I'm glad to see someone put it out there in plain english.

I'll take the boring route,

Thanks

If you live around Santa Rosa, I would recommend going out to Doran Park to play in the surf.  My son and I go out there once a month or so just to play in the waves.
 We put on the wetsuits and booties, strip down the kayaks, and have at it.   We've done the endo, maytag, b**** slap, and the tumble & roll.  The park has a great breakwater and a large, all sand, beach.  Because of the breakwater, you can choose how much wave action you want. 
The next time we go out, I'll be trying the knee straps.  It makes sense that once you get sideways to the wave, you have no bite in the water and over you go.  Usually landing on the beach side of the yak. At least with the knee straps, you'll land on the ocean side.

Quote:
"knee straps and bracing is for people that roll their yaks, wear helmets, etc."

Reply:

Huh uh........Knee straps and bracing are for anyone who wants to get himself, his boat, and his expensive gear back to the sand in an orderly day-after-day repeatable and regular way.   

DIRT CHEEP......something you dont' have to buy but can make yourself.....

To "prove-concept" to yourself that this is IMPORTANT and something that might make a really important additon to your boat, you can rig "quickie" leg-straps with two lengths of ROPE...!!!      They'll cut a bit and be uncomfortable but they will demonstrate the control they give you of the boat.

Judd

IMO: Knee straps are good to have but not necessary. When we took the HMB Surf Class, none of us had any but learned to brace properly as the day went on.

Have you ever tried a pair of thigh braces?  It's like night and day.  The control you get with them is far beyond anything you can get without them.  For all you river runners, try 'em there too.  You'll get a lot out of them.

Never used a knee strap and I'm sure it would be better to use 'em but my point was that it's not necessary. Like anything else, it just takes practice. Use 'em or not, that's entirely up to you

IMO: Knee straps are good to have but not necessary. When we took the HMB Surf Class, none of us had any but learned to brace properly as the day went on.

Have you ever tried a pair of thigh braces?  It's like night and day.  The control you get with them is far beyond anything you can get without them.  For all you river runners, try 'em there too.  You'll get a lot out of them.

Never used a knee strap and I'm sure it would be better to use 'em but my point was that it's not necessary. Like anything else, it just takes practice. Use 'em or not, that's entirely up to you

Do you snowboard without bindings?  Sure it can be done, ala the "noboard" (http://www.noboard.ca/product.html), and I'm sure it just "takes practice".

-Allen

Sounds like knee-straps definitely have their place for any kind of yakker, but saying they hardly pose any threat of a tangle seems wrong to me.  If you do go over, how is it that those two straps attached to your yak don't present a threat of a tangle?...  I think Mooch is right that they're not necessary for doing what we do, and I think Judd's right that they could help people in some situations.  Personally, I have no desire to attach knee-straps to my rig.

 Thanks for mentioning Doran. When I transitioned from WW to surf this is where I learned. Most days its a friendly zone but it can get very ugly out there. We were fortunate to ride there when "the child" was here (was that 98?) and we were very comfortable in boardshorts or spring suits. so nice for norcal.
Here are a few pictures from the old Doran days. Sorry for the quality, it was pre digitalcam and we all were using H2Oproof disposables.
First picture is of my old roommate "Moto" on a yak board. I know the boat isnt applicable for this group, but I think this is a good picture of the wave shape at Doran and if you look closely he is wearing leg straps. Was a must in the smaller surfyaks.
 The second picture is also Doran but on a more challenging day.

I also believe in using straps, but in certain conditions and certain boats.
Judd brought up many excellent points but I respectfully disagree with the absolutism of a few statements.  "Entanglement is a zero possibility" being one. This does happen.
There are a few things that Ive experienced with straps that should be of note.  If you are doing a river or taking multiple waves without a break you need to be aware of the circulation in your legs.
Ive had the unfortunate experience of  swimming in surf or dismounting for landing and finding that one of my legs doesnt work.
 Straps are also a fantastic hook magnet.



 

Just an observation here, this thread really shows how little we as kayak anglers know about kayaking.  This is something I often nervously laugh about, and not in a good way if you know what I mean.

The low brace technique that PAL posted pics of is standard fare in sea kayaking.   And thigh braces are standard fare in SOT surf kayaking.  Sea kayaking and surf kayaking have BTDT and have proven these techniques to safely get through the surf zone.  Why should we be any different?

-Allen

Why should we be any different?

Because we carry much more gear, focus on flat water activities, and our boats are much much more stable.  We're way different.

Again, some people may want to focus on whitewater and surf techniques so they can pull that trick out of their hat while yak-fishing, but knowing the brace or wearing straps has been shown to be not essential to successful kayak fishing.  And that takes safety into account as well.

Good discussion.   

Eric

Good discussion.   

Great discussion.  We don't have nearly enough discussions on paddling technique and safety.  Hmmm, perhaps we need a forum for this topic?

Why should we be any different?

Because we carry much more gear, focus on flat water activities, and our boats are much much more stable.  We're way different.

Partially true.  We don't necessarily carry more gear.  Sea kayakers on multi-day trips carry way more than we do.  While we do focus on flat water activities, we still have to traverse the surf zone.  Many sea kayakers are in the same boat so to speak.  I'm not saying that one should wear thigh braces when NOT in the surf zone.

And yes, our boats are much more stable, which lets us get lazy about technique.  IMO, that doesn't mean we should ignore technique.

Again, some people may want to focus on whitewater and surf techniques so they can pull that trick out of their hat while yak-fishing, but knowing the brace or wearing straps has been shown to be not essential to successful kayak fishing.  And that takes safety into account as well.

It's not about pulling a trick.  I consider a low brace as basic knowledge when kayaking.  It's one of the first things you learn in a kayaking class (although applying it in a surf scenario is more advanced).  Sea kayakers are anal to a fault about safety and technique.  Kayak anglers are at the opposite extreme.  I'm hoping as a sport we grow up a little and embrace some basic kayaking skills.

BTW, I can't remember the last time I wore thigh braces, although I have a few pairs.  So it's not like I'm up on my high horse about them.  They do have their time and place as you all point out.  I just hope that people aren't so quick to dismiss them.  I've been bringing them up in the context of this discussion for years and it's always fallen on deaf ears.

As for bracing.  Learn it and practice it.  Enough said.

-Allen