Native vs. Hobie

Hey guys,
For those of you that went to GS8, hope you had a great time.  By the looks of the pictures and the expressions on some of the faces, it looked wonderful.  Wish I could have been there!! Maybe next year!
I just read Dan Arbuckle's article about the Native Slayer vs. Hobie Outback and I'm interested in the 10' Propel model.  I like the idea that it has reverse and peddles like a bike.  I called a couple of dealers cause Dan's closed on Mondays'.  Some of the comments weren't very complimentary of the Native.  One dealer says that the company takes forever to handle a claim and another said that the drive system is prone to breakage.  I'll probably roadtrip to Dan's to get a firsthand look at the Native.  I trust Dan and Headwaters.
Ok, that being said, has anyone had any experience with Native kayaks and the propel drive?

Thanks all,

bob

don't worry, be happy

The Native drive looks & feels solid to me! More so than the Hobie Mirage drive...and I'm a Hobie guy! But I haven't pedaled the Native...only played with the drive and raced a guy on a Native who was pedaling backwards pretty swiftly.

Dan doesn't carry the 10' Mariner. The only one his shop carries is the 13ft Slayer Propel.  The Slayer propel is Native's newest model and is a significantly better designed propel boat than the Mariner series.  As with all kayaks, there will be occasional issues that require customer service or manufacturer assistance. I've heard that Native has made some great strides in this regard in the past couple years. I personally have had no problems with them in my dealings as part of their promotional staff; they have a small staff that is responsive to concerns brought up. If you have any questions, feel free to contact Headwaters or me (don't worry, I don't get paid for any of this!)

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raced a guy on a Native who was pedaling backwards pretty swiftly.

That guy sounds like a riot! If not maybe a little unhinged....

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Maybe some of the guys who tried it at Berryseea can chime in.

I'm assuming that you're looking at the 10 foot Mariner because it's lighter weight? The Slayer 13 is a solid kayak but it is heavy. It would be nice if Native designed it for scupper carts. The propel drive is a solid 15 pounds. Each part seems very sturdy even the propeller and I don't see it breaking down anytime soon. As far as the Mariners, the lower seating doesn't feel very comfortable to pedal....

I have the slayer propel 13 and love it!
Tom

I have the mariner 12.5 going on 4 years.  I can't compare it to a Hobie but I can tell you what I like and don't like about it.  I don't think that there is a rig out there that will cover all the wishes of everyone out there.  I think it is more of a compromise than anything else.  The mariner is a very solid kayak but the compromise is the weight.  I have never had an issue with the drive but in my opinion I don't feel the gearing is as efficient as it could be with different gears and a prop that doesn't deflect as much when you really want to get going.  The flat deck on the back is awesome no complaints.  The hull design makes for a very stable platform, but difficult to get a transducer to mount through one of the scuppers due to the design of the hull.  I want to be able to flush mount a transducer through a scupper to reduce drag and hanging up on debris but again due to how the hull is designed it makes this option tough.  If anyone haste done this please let me know.  The rudder is not big enough and this rig turns almost as wide as my truck.  Bottom line I would by this rig again.  It does what I want it to do,  for the most part

There's no such thing as a bullet proof pedal drive.  I've seen several of the Propel Drives lock up and I've also seen several Mirage Drives that had issues and left the operator paddling.  It's just one of the things you have to deal with if you decide to go with a pedal yak.  I will say that the two guys that I know that had their Propels bind up were lucky that when the drives went out they were fishing in major tournaments and Woody Calloway was there and swapped out the drives with new ones on the spot.  In fact both of those guys had it happen twice in the same weekend.

That being said, my Mirage Drive left me paddling yesterday on the Delta in 25mph winds.  I snapped a fin mast 2.5 miles from the launch and paddled my Hobie Pro Angler 14 for almost 3 hours against the wind to get back home.  It's an easy fix but it was still a failure.  I've beat my Mirage Drive to death for the last two and a half years though and was about due for an issue.  I've had to rebend the masts multiple times after some serious collisions with oyster bars on the East coast and I'm sure it weakend them substantially over time.  I would have been smart to replace them a good while back or at least should have had spares onboard.  I'll be hitting up Wind Toys tomorrow and getting all the parts to rebuild my drive and will keep the existing parts in a "spares" kit onboard in case I find myself in another precarious position!

Thanks for the info.  I guess that the most important thing to do is to demo a Native.  I hope to find the 10'er. For me, it's all about weight and durability even though that may be an oxymoron.  It's going to be transported on the roof of my VW Westfalia and not being tall (5'5") weight will be an issue.
It looks like more research is in order.

Thanks again guys.

bob

One good thing about the Native, is you  are lower to the water. I have a friend here who has one and we fished with him on a windy day on a lake; two of us Outback owners and him on his Native. He was able to drift slower than us because of his low profile in the wind. Us Outback guys being having a much higher profile were swept away a lot faster than him.