Humbolt squid/ dungies.

First off, Bill, do I get a shirt for a hot topic?!
Im thinking this lack of dungie crabs is because a big slice of thier diet is dead squid, thats why the squid only live for such a short time and make up a huge mass, its because they are food. Just like the dying salmon of yesterday, but a few folks just found out about the humbolt squid fishing racket a couple of years ago and take hundreds and hundreds of squid per trip, for 30 people?! Its crab food! The sad thing is , the squid doesnt get treated the same as tuna or salmon, it gets wasted and a lot of it gets tossed. Just an idea...

I would love to hook one up on my P15 though...

Good point ben.
I think the haul for a party boat on squid is ridiculous. There should be limits of some kind.

Good point ben.
I think the haul for a party boat on squid is ridiculous. There should be limits of some kind.

Hey Ben,

I have to agree as well. This fishing opportunity is being totally taken advantage of. Unfortunately, the party boats are using the big numbers as a draw for customers during the off season to help pay the bills. . I would think this could be regulated and still allow for a decent number to be taken without being a game hog.

It would be kind of awesome to catch one of these in a yak though. I would imagine it would take quite a thunk to dispatch this critter

Ben

Well I sure don't know....
 The squid are marauders...benefit from the depletion of sharks in the sea.
 They may be over abundant at times and wreck havoc on forage fish populations...and salmon.
If thats the case...thinning them may be a good idea.
Steve

Ok I think I heard enough.  Lets consider the following:  The Humboldt Squid is not a species traditionally found in Northern California and their expansion range is thought to have increased dramatically during el nino years when they followed warm water currents North from their native warm waters down south.  The term is INVASIVE SPECIES.  The numbers we're experiencing are not anywhere close to what was seen out there 10-20 years ago.  Prior to the current boom, the only mention I ever seen of Humboldt squid was the odd squid or two that was picked up by boats in Bodega that were rockfishing the Cordell Bank (back when it was open to fishing).  Those are the same areas the squid are residing in large numbers now.  Considering this, how were the crab able to survive and maintain a sustainable population for all these years without being able to feed on invading humoldt carcases that are in fact not a regular part of their diet? 
What I've been hearing is two theories on the slow crabbing; 1. we are on a the downward curve of the population cycle and 2. last year the large commercial boats from up north that come down here for the first couple weeks of season to wipe out our fishery by dropping thousands of pots also returned at the end of the season and mopped up the crabs that had grown to legal commercial size after the boats had left (in previous years they only came at the begining of the season).  It may be one or the other and possibly both but both these theories seem a thousand times more plausible than blaming it on the slight dent put on the invasive squid population by party boats.

The real intent of this thread to bash party boats and their patrons, right?  I can't defend people who who waste their catch, they're the same as poachers in my book so I'm aggreeance with your opinion on them but I wouldn't assume all people who brought home squid just threw them away. 

This topic is continually raised.  I understand the pedestal that yakfishermen place themselves on when it comes to partyboats, you know cause we're just way better than them.  However, I'd say the average partyboat angler takes 1-5 trips a year, not always for rockfish, they adhere to the regs and probably take less fish per year than you do.  A PB is a means to an end for those who do not want a boat/kayak, cannot afford a boat/kayak, cannot store a boat/kayak, cannot physically handle a boat/kayak, do not fish often enough to justify a boat/kayak or whatever other reasons. 

Winter is gonna be a long one.....I say weekly meetings for  should be mandatory during the slow seasons to keep things light.






         

I have heard this discussion before. And I guess I don't really have much to add (but that never stopped me before!) except that I am confused by the information available.

There seems to be a number of theories:
1) these squid are ravenous predators and have the potential to decimate regional fish populations
2) they have expanded their range due to changing climatic conditions AKA they didn't inhabit the depths of Monterey Bay in previous decades
3) the sheer number of these squid is increasing exponentially due to a decrease in the number of animals that eat them
4) humboldt squid are a viable sportfish
5) unregulated harvest guidelines are allowing CPFVs to take an unreasonable amount of squid from the ocean
6) a large number of these sport-caught squid are being 'wasted'

None of these aforementioned theories are my own personal theories. This is just a list of theories/ideas I have heard over the past few years. And I'm just laying them out as points of dicsussion (food for thought if you will). Personally, I am a bit confused by all of the conflicting information, and I believe the source of these theories ought to be considered too. 

One thing I DO know is that the current 'squid situation' is a dynamic one; the information we have gathered thus far is constantly changing, as is their 'situation.' We might not know anything conclusive about these creatures for another decade or two. And, for me, that is exciting. To see (what appears to be) evolution occuring right in front of me is pretty cool, IMO.

Unless, of course, they evolve into flying humboldt squid that prey on rotomolded plastic objects. That would NOT be cool...
PK

In breaking news: Scott Thornley refrains from commenting on hot NCKA topic !!! Video at 11:00 

Nothing like stirring up the pot once in a while!
OK, now I might be wrong , but Ive heard the squid have always been here, just nobodys targeted them till recently. Ive got nothing against party boaters at all, and most by far are playing by the rules but a few are overkilling, and some are getting caught with over limits. Rant rant, rave rave. Beer sounds good to me. Cheers.

The real intent of this thread to bash party boats and their patrons, right? 





         

NO! I'm sorry if that's what you heard. That's not what was said.  I have nothing against PBs or their patrons. As far as I know they are following the rules and the catch is legal. IMO the no limit is being taken advantage of and should be regulated.

I attended the American Fisheries Society Meeting in September and went to three presentations on Humboldt Squid.  Here is a quote from the report I posted earlier.  This is clearly condensed, but it represents the latest  thinking about these animals from the scientists looking at them.  And pardon my editorial comments in there.  I should have been more objective.

Humboldt Squid  Researchers on the David Starr and three other speakers all presented clear observations that Humboldt squid are vastly expanding their range and numbers.  Additionally, they prey on just about everything of all different size ranges, which is looking like a another big setback for rockfishes.   I'll say right now that I have to eat my hat on this one.  I was one of the first to condemn the seemingly wanton overfishing of these animals by the party boats.  But from what I'm hearing, well, fish away.

These squid used to range in the the gulf of California  up into southern CA.  They now can be found in numbers up to Sitka AK, and don't appear to be affected by the cold:  One guy showed a pic of a big squid next to an iceberg.  The real distressing thing about these guys is their growth rates.  Their life span is 18 months, and in that time they go from plankton sized organisms to over six feet.  One presenter made the analogy of going from human baby size to blue whale size in 18 months. This takes a lot of feed.

Besides the enormous growth rates, these cephalpods are amazingly fecund, producing many young.  So there's a lot of them and they eat a ton. Additionally, because their generations are so short, an average rockfish living 25 - 30 years may have to suffer through 20 generations of these things, which reduces their survival to reproduction ratio considerably.

Oddly, the squid can reside in the Oxygen Minimum Layer (OML), a depleted oxygen zone about 200 meters (I think , again) in depth where fish generally won't go due to O2 depletion.  They hang out there to avoid predation, then vertically migrate up to the fish levels for carnage.  They feed more at night, but are not nocturnal by any means.  For some reason as yet undetermined, they don't mind low O2, which is unusual for squid.

One speaker had two hypothesis of why this is occurring.  Reason 1, which he didn't seem to give very much support, is that the heavy take of top-water predators, the natural predators of squids, have lessened limiting factors on the population.  Reason 2 is that climate change has raised the OML and pushed it more inshore.  I didn't quite understand all of this, but the speaker was putting more money on this scenario.

The only good thing that can be said about them is they may provide more of a prey base for sperm whales and mako sharks.

Hope NCKA members find this information useful.

In breaking news: Scott Thornley refrains from commenting on hot NCKA topic !!! Video at 11:00 

LOL, this deserves a shirt!  




Ben, unfortunately the anti-party boat sentiment is often expressed here as if they are the root of all evil, I just happened to post my thoughts in this thread (which puts a negative slant on the CPFV squid fishery..and yes, it was said).  Personally I think regulation of this fishery at this point is premature.  What we have is a very limited fishery due to weather, squid availability and passenger interest.  The novelty of squid fishing is waning and the scores being reported are going down...from what I've seen anyway. I'm sure people are realizing that pulling them up from +600 feet is not as easy or attractive as it used to be.  I don't trust the DFG to come up with valid regs anyway.

Hobie...I'm a fisherman first and will continue to utilize all my options in the pursuit of fish whether I'm paddling, boating, on shore, or diving. I think kayaking is awesome and more people if given the opportunity would take great joy in it as well but I refuse to limit myself by categorizing or championing one faction over another.  I also don't see why one faction is any better, worse, more deserving than another.  I am open to differing opinions though so I'll listen to and/or adopt anything you have to offer so long as its backed by solid reasoning.  Now's your chance to make a difference.  


    


  

Good thread! OK, since I started it, let me say my intention was to get some folks thoughts on what and if crabs eat dead squid and maybe a connection???? Answer: probably not. Even if pbs fill up everyday, it wont give the squid much of a dent... Party boats good, mm'kay?! The ones that dont poach...
Interesting about the ongoing squid talks, I always thought squid were kind of freaky but damn...
Anyway, when the reports of squid boats come in with #s in the hundreds for 30 people, I promise I wont rant and rave on the board, so Ill say it now, it aint right. Just my opinion.

When DFG kills every single Northern pike in a lake...no one says its too much.
 Invasive species need to be killed.
 Now the squid may not be an invasive per se, but if its numbers grow out of whack to the point of ruining one species population after another they may be treated as such.
            I have worked the Sea of Cortez too long to have much respect for this creature. It is to environmentally expensive and needs no regulation for the sake of regulation. If it needs regulation then let it be to save it and manage it well. Anyone imagine it to be in trouble?
 I wonder what happens when schools of squid encounter schools of salmon. 
 This thing may well play a part in their current predicament...who knows?
 Steve