Summary of Recreational Fishing Regulations for Federal Groundfish

Wondering if we'll ever go back to a simple season with no depth restrictions, even if the quillback thing gets sorted.

I think it is doubtful.  During our last meeting, I told CDFW staff that you need a PhD to understand the current fishing regulations.  The response I got was that they were trying to allow fishing with all the restrictions, and it got more complicated.

Paul

I'm glad to see these comments here. Not so much herein but I see CDFW constantly being bashed for reg changes that restrict fishing opportunity. I've been following the regs for years and (it seems to me) what they're actually doing is trying to allow as much opportunity within the constraints of declining populations and other (federal) regulations. And they do lessen restrictions and increase bag limits as conditions change. Also seems that CDFW and the F&GC are way more receptive to fishers input than they have been at times in the past.

Kudos for your work and approach.

Hmm, I didn't see Gophers comment before I posted up this one. I still stand by what I said.

Wondering if we'll ever go back to a simple season with no depth restrictions, even if the quillback thing gets sorted.

I think it is doubtful.  During our last meeting, I told CDFW staff that you need a PhD to understand the current fishing regulations.  The response I got was that they were trying to allow fishing with all the restrictions, and it got more complicated.

Paul

I'm glad to see these comments here. Not so much herein but I see CDFW constantly being bashed for reg changes that restrict fishing opportunity. I've been following the regs for years and (it seems to me) what they're actually doing is trying to allow as much opportunity within the constraints of declining populations and other (federal) regulations. And they do lessen restrictions and increase bag limits as conditions change. Also seems that CDFW and the F&GC are way more receptive to fishers input than they have been at times in the past.

Kudos for your work and approach.

Hmm, I didn't see Gophers comment before I posted up this one. I still stand by what I said.

Hi Dale

I totally agree with your observation.  My view of them changed greatly after working with FGC, FGC Staff, and CDFW Staff (Craig Shuman & James Phillips).  They were very dedicated to their work, easy to communicate with, willing to help, and willing to listen.  I won't agree with them on all the issues, but I greatly respect them.  Also, some of these people are fishermen, and one is even a kayak angler.

Paul

Understand that my trust has been broken, which i'm disclosing 100%, and it takes a lot to get trust back. People don't usually do misguided, unhelpful things out of a desire to be unhelpful. They just have too much faith in their knowledge, their perspective, and their authority. That could be a description of many people, including me, but i'm not making decisions that affect others.

Going out for rockfish and lings is the essence of fulfillment and joy for me at this time in my life, so that's my bias. It's very difficult not to be resentful of what happened last year, and the quillback thing along with the increasingly complicated regs stinks of BS. But it's not merely selfish concerns that have me expressing myself here, knowing I'll look unhinged to some of you. I just think faith in government types is very misplaced and the long-term trends are clear.

Understand that my trust has been broken, which i'm disclosing 100%, and it takes a lot to get trust back.

We all need to return to fishing instead of working on the regulations.  Hopefully soon.
I do respect your opinion.  We all have different experiences and backgrounds.

Paul

Did you guys just start fishing last year? Because that’s what it sounds like—please have some perspective. I’ve only been paying attention to RCG regs since ~1999. And guess what: the regs for seasons/depth/posession limits change every few years. That’s how the adaptive management system works. Would you prefer the alternative? A system that does not adapt to the constantly-changing population of various species.
So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid. Unless you have a time machine and you’re talking about the 1990s. Because that’s the last time we have unabated access to rockfish at all depths.
But thanks for lobbying for more bureaucratic restrictions and giving the commission additional fodder…the companies that produce fish decenders owe you guys a bunch of money.

Did you guys just start fishing last year? Because that’s what it sounds like—please have some perspective. I’ve only been paying attention to RCG regs since ~1999. And guess what: the regs for seasons/depth/posession limits change every few years. That’s how the adaptive management system works. Would you prefer the alternative? A system that does not adapt to the constantly-changing population of various species.
So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid. Unless you have a time machine and you’re talking about the 1990s. Because that’s the last time we have unabated access to rockfish at all depths.
But thanks for lobbying for more bureaucratic restrictions and giving the commission additional fodder…the companies that produce fish decenders owe you guys a bunch of money.

"So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid." Thanks for that helpful addition to the discussion. Perhaps I should have been more specific about the quillback-related depth restrictions, and I also remember the deeper water being closed for many years. There's a well-worn history of bureaucracies taking power for real or imagined "problems" and then never giving that power back, but go ahead and dismiss concerns over that sort of thing as "stupid" if it makes you feel good. In fact, insulting people with different views, like you did here, is totally awesome, especially for the "global moderator" of an open forum. If feeling superior to others is what you need, i'm glad to help give you the opportunity.

Did you guys just start fishing last year? Because that’s what it sounds like—please have some perspective. I’ve only been paying attention to RCG regs since ~1999. And guess what: the regs for seasons/depth/posession limits change every few years. That’s how the adaptive management system works. Would you prefer the alternative? A system that does not adapt to the constantly-changing population of various species.
So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid. Unless you have a time machine and you’re talking about the 1990s. Because that’s the last time we have unabated access to rockfish at all depths.
But thanks for lobbying for more bureaucratic restrictions and giving the commission additional fodder…the companies that produce fish decenders owe you guys a bunch of money.

"So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid." Thanks for that helpful addition to the discussion. Perhaps I should have been more specific about the quillback-related depth restrictions, and I also remember the deeper water being closed for many years. There's a well-worn history of bureaucracies taking power for real or imagined "problems" and then never giving that power back, but go ahead and dismiss concerns over that sort of thing as "stupid" if it makes you feel good. In fact, insulting people with different views, like you did here, is totally awesome, especially for the "global moderator" of an open forum. If feeling superior to others is what you need, i'm glad to help give you the opportunity.

Whether or not Sin Coast has an opinion on this as a global moderator is immaterial.  I don't see any personal attacks or insults from him, he's entitled to think that a line of questioning is stupid.  That doesn't mean he called anyone stupid.

Never giving back?  Some of us were prepared to never see a deep water season again.  Heck, the deep water fisheries weren't supposed to recover enough to allow a deep water fishery until like 2030.  So in fact, they did give back by opening it.

-Allen

Did you guys just start fishing last year? Because that’s what it sounds like—please have some perspective. I’ve only been paying attention to RCG regs since ~1999. And guess what: the regs for seasons/depth/posession limits change every few years. That’s how the adaptive management system works. Would you prefer the alternative? A system that does not adapt to the constantly-changing population of various species.
So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid. Unless you have a time machine and you’re talking about the 1990s. Because that’s the last time we have unabated access to rockfish at all depths.
But thanks for lobbying for more bureaucratic restrictions and giving the commission additional fodder…the companies that produce fish decenders owe you guys a bunch of money.

"So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid." Thanks for that helpful addition to the discussion. Perhaps I should have been more specific about the quillback-related depth restrictions, and I also remember the deeper water being closed for many years. There's a well-worn history of bureaucracies taking power for real or imagined "problems" and then never giving that power back, but go ahead and dismiss concerns over that sort of thing as "stupid" if it makes you feel good. In fact, insulting people with different views, like you did here, is totally awesome, especially for the "global moderator" of an open forum. If feeling superior to others is what you need, i'm glad to help give you the opportunity.

Whether or not Sin Coast has an opinion on this as a global moderator is immaterial.  I don't see any personal attacks or insults from him, he's entitled to think that a line of questioning is stupid.  That doesn't mean he called anyone stupid.

Never giving back?  Some of us were prepared to never see a deep water season again.  Heck, the deep water fisheries weren't supposed to recover enough to allow a deep water fishery until like 2030.  So in fact, they did give back by opening it.

-Allen

He's totally insulting people with different views, regardless of you attempting to gaslight about it. And I can point it out. And he can take it. Claiming it isn't happening is different though. And I even clarified what i meant about the depth restrictions, yet you think you're dunking on me by mentioning the deep water. Have a great day, friends, and I hope we can go fishing soon.

Did you guys just start fishing last year? Because that’s what it sounds like—please have some perspective. I’ve only been paying attention to RCG regs since ~1999. And guess what: the regs for seasons/depth/posession limits change every few years. That’s how the adaptive management system works. Would you prefer the alternative? A system that does not adapt to the constantly-changing population of various species.
So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid. Unless you have a time machine and you’re talking about the 1990s. Because that’s the last time we have unabated access to rockfish at all depths.
But thanks for lobbying for more bureaucratic restrictions and giving the commission additional fodder…the companies that produce fish decenders owe you guys a bunch of money.

"So the question about returning to seasons without depth restrictions is stupid." Thanks for that helpful addition to the discussion. Perhaps I should have been more specific about the quillback-related depth restrictions, and I also remember the deeper water being closed for many years. There's a well-worn history of bureaucracies taking power for real or imagined "problems" and then never giving that power back, but go ahead and dismiss concerns over that sort of thing as "stupid" if it makes you feel good. In fact, insulting people with different views, like you did here, is totally awesome, especially for the "global moderator" of an open forum. If feeling superior to others is what you need, i'm glad to help give you the opportunity.

Whether or not Sin Coast has an opinion on this as a global moderator is immaterial.  I don't see any personal attacks or insults from him, he's entitled to think that a line of questioning is stupid.  That doesn't mean he called anyone stupid.

Never giving back?  Some of us were prepared to never see a deep water season again.  Heck, the deep water fisheries weren't supposed to recover enough to allow a deep water fishery until like 2030.  So in fact, they did give back by opening it.

-Allen

He's totally insulting people with different views, regardless of you attempting to gaslight about it. And I can point it out. And he can take it. Claiming it isn't happening is different though. And I even clarified what i meant about the depth restrictions, yet you think you're dunking on me by mentioning the deep water. Have a great day, friends, and I hope we can go fishing soon.

You're entitled to your opinion.  However, we do not hold moderators to a different level than we hold anyone else.  Never have, we're not that special, so I don't expect you to either.

I don't think I'm dunking on you.  In fact, I don't think I made a statement about you.  We have a saying here ... debate the issue, not the person.  And in this case, the issue was a statement saying they never give back.  I pointed out a precise example counter to that statement.

-Allen

 You didn’t make it about me and did offer a direct counter to my statement, which is fabulous. There’s obviously nothing personal about that, but it did seem a little beside the point after I attempted to clarify that I was referring to the Quillback-related split season depth restrictions. All good bro.

I have failed to be precise and specific throughout this thread in expressing my frustration because it comes from an overall overarching lack of trust. Would be thrilled beyond measure to be wrong about all of this. Hopefully the benevolent, people-loving folks who are making our fishing rules aren’t as full of crap as they seem to be. Fishing is the only thing I have in my life for my mental health and it’s beyond important. Not being allowed to fish for some Browns in Capitola, or for a lingcod out of the harbor in Santa Cruz because some Quillback many many miles away may or may not have an issue was complete nonsense last year no matter how you frame it.

Unless you have a time machine and you’re talking about the 1990s.

If anyone with a time machine is going back to the 90's, specifically before 1998, would you do me a favor and send a postcard to past me saying that Elisabeth has crabs? Would save me from a good bit of hassle.  Thanks in advance!

You didn’t make it about me and did offer a direct counter to my statement, which is fabulous. There’s obviously nothing personal about that, but it did seem a little beside the point after I attempted to clarify that I was referring to the Quillback-related split season depth restrictions. All good bro.

I have failed to be precise and specific throughout this thread in expressing my frustration because it comes from an overall overarching lack of trust. Would be thrilled beyond measure to be wrong about all of this. Hopefully the benevolent, people-loving folks who are making our fishing rules aren’t as full of crap as they seem to be. Fishing is the only thing I have in my life for my mental health and it’s beyond important. Not being allowed to fish for some Browns in Capitola, or for a lingcod out of the harbor in Santa Cruz because some Quillback many many miles away may or may not have an issue was complete nonsense last year no matter how you frame it.

And I completely understand your statement on lack of trust of CDFW.  I wrestle with that myself, having a healthy distrust of them at the same time hoping they will do their job best they can.  Because really, there is no one to do it better, as it is their responsibility.

-Allen

Similar distrust of the science used to determine fishing regulations is happening in other areas as well. This article is worth a read:

https://www.outdoorlife.com/fishing/crappie-barotrauma/

If you want a sense of the scale of things and what the shift is all about this is a good read

If I had read this and a couple of other books prior to the MLPA process my involvement would’ve been entirely different…or maybe wouldn’t have happened at all. As it was I set myself up for the same boatload of frustrations that others on the wrong side of the divide came away with. The costs were pretty high but then most of us got off easy compared with a lot of people in commercial fishing community

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