Sabiki regs

Hey let's get it a bit more complicated.  If you're trying to catch bait anchovies while salmon fishing with a sabiki.  Salmon rules apply only if you have a salmon on board yes?  So, with a slamon in possesion, you are limited to a  two-hook sabiki with no barbs?  What about this salmon gear rule:   

if angling by any means other than trolling, then no more than two (2) single point, single shank, barbless circle hooks shall be used. The distance between the two hooks must not exceed five inches when measured from the top of the eye of the top hook to the inner base of the curve of the lower hook, and both hooks must be permanently tied in place (hard tied).

I never have this problem. I think frozen anchovies work better for salmon than live anchovies.

Also, is the 'dropper loop' nature of a sabiki rig count as "hard tied?" It could be interpreted as tied directly on the main leader like a snell knot.

Other randoms....I commonly cut down larger hook size sabiki's to two hooks and use them for clients' rockfish.  RF especaily schoolies go crazy for a little white sabiki.  Great for baitfishing  as well, avoiding the messy tangles. Especailly on the kayak. Try five Mackerel on a sabiki rig at once.  The time lost untangling outweighs the fewer umber of fish at a a time.

Bushy

 Mainly I'm thinking  that the sabiki has more than 5"  between hooks so even if you crimped the barbs, and cut it down to two hooks, you'd not be in adherence to specific salmon regs. For that matter, let's say you catch your limit of salmon and go rockfishing on the way in.  Even with barbs crimped, a normal shrimp fly jig has two hooks well over 5" apart.

I know there's an answer somewhere on DFW website but, try to find it!  How about using an iron with barbs crimped on your treble hook while you have salmon onboard?

BTW there's snow on the Santa Cruz Mountain peaks.


Bushy

So, sufficiently vague enough  to provide that warden to ticket you or to let it slide (5" distance on your barbless hooks while rockfishing with a slamon onboard). It does not state specifically on these regulations except for the mooching item.  If I go catch rockfish after landing a slamon, I don't have to usecircle hooks either....Damn.  Gotta look at the blank spaces to figure out the rules!

Daily bag limit (CCR T-14, §27.80): 2 salmon of any species except coho (silver) salmon.
Possession limit: No more than two daily bag limits may be possessed when on land. On a vessel in ocean waters, no person shall possess or bring ashore more than one daily bag limit (CCR T-14, §27.80(e)).
Retention of coho (silver) salmon or steelhead trout is prohibited in any ocean fishery (CCR T-14, §27.70(b) and §27.80(b)).
Coho (Silver) Salmon Identification Flyer (PDF)(opens in new tab)
Salmon may not be filleted on any boat or prior to being brought ashore (CCR T-14, §27.80(c)).
Salmon may only be taken by angling as defined in CCR T-14, §1.05. No sinkers or weights exceeding 4 lbs. may be used, except that a fishing line may be attached to a sinker or weight of any size if such sinker or weight is suspended by a separate line and the fishing line is released automatically by a mechanical device from the sinker or weight when any fish is hooked (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)).

North of Point Conception: No more than two single-point, single-shank barbless hooks shall be used and no more than one rod per angler when fishing for salmon or fishing from a boat with salmon on board (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)).

40º10' line near Cape Mendocino to Point Conception (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)): When fishing with bait and angling by any means other than TROLLING1, no more than two single-point, single-shank barbless CIRCLE HOOKS 2 shall be used. The distance between the two hooks must not exceed 5 inches when measured from the top of the eye of the top hook to the inner base of the curve of the lower hook and both hooks must be permanently tied in place (hard tied).
NOTE: These special gear restrictions apply to each angler fishing for salmon or fishing from any boat or floating device with salmon on board.
TROLLING is defined as angling from a boat or floating device that is making way by means of a source of power, other than drifting by means of the prevailing water current or weather conditions.
A CIRCLE HOOK is defined as a hook with a generally circular shape and a point which turns inwards, pointing directly to the shank at a 90-degree angle.

I’m getting progressively confused. But I came up with a simple solution : if you catch any fish, and you still want to use whatever Sabiki you have, simply throw away your catch and start from scratch!

Not sure, but it seems to me if you’re Sabiki fishing for bait and hook a rockfish, you should be able to release the rockfish and keep on dunking the Sabiki.

yes that's correct. if you consistently catch rockfish though, you are legally obligated to stop fishing there or to switch your rigs as its considered "targetting" to keep fishing in a known area for that species

Not sure I agree with this.  Can you point to where in the regs it states this?

-Allen

Hey let's get it a bit more complicated.  If you're trying to catch bait anchovies while salmon fishing with a sabiki.  Salmon rules apply only if you have a salmon on board yes?  So, with a slamon in possesion, you are limited to a  two-hook sabiki with no barbs?  What about this salmon gear rule:   

if angling by any means other than trolling, then no more than two (2) single point, single shank, barbless circle hooks shall be used. The distance between the two hooks must not exceed five inches when measured from the top of the eye of the top hook to the inner base of the curve of the lower hook, and both hooks must be permanently tied in place (hard tied).

I never have this problem. I think frozen anchovies work better for salmon than live anchovies.

Also, is the 'dropper loop' nature of a sabiki rig count as "hard tied?" It could be interpreted as tied directly on the main leader like a snell knot.

Other randoms....I commonly cut down larger hook size sabiki's to two hooks and use them for clients' rockfish.  RF especaily schoolies go crazy for a little white sabiki.  Great for baitfishing  as well, avoiding the messy tangles. Especailly on the kayak. Try five Mackerel on a sabiki rig at once.  The time lost untangling outweighs the fewer umber of fish at a a time.

Bushy

Are you baiting the hooks?  If you don't bait the hooks on your shrimp flies or sabikis, you don't need hard tied circle hooks.  That only applies when you are using bait and are in shelter cove or points south.

It seems to me that trying to determine what a person is "targeting" is highly subjective. For example, when I'm targeting halibut, I sometimes troll with a downrigger and use typical salmon gear. As another example, often when I'm targeting halibut, I only get rockfish as by catch.

Crash--I'd be real interested where that's found in the regulations.

The regs I see say this-
North of Point Conception: No more than two single-point, single-shank barbless hooks shall be used and no more than one rod per angler when fishing for salmon or fishing from a boat with salmon on board (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)).

40º10' line near Cape Mendocino to Point Conception (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)): When fishing with bait and angling by any means other than TROLLING1, no more than two single-point, single-shank barbless CIRCLE HOOKS 2 shall be used.

So if what you say is true, no bait= no foul? If so, then wouldn't the next sentence also apply, "The distance between the two hooks must not exceed five inches when measured..." In other words shrimp fly jigs would be afoul of the law?

Bushy

Are you baiting the hooks?  If you don't bait the hooks on your shrimp flies or sabikis, you don't need hard tied circle hooks.  That only applies when you are using bait and are in shelter cove or points south.

I believe that many/most sabikis are made with fish skin. Is fish skin considered to be bait?

Bushy- 

It’s in the first few words of the regulation you posted. “When fishing with bait and…”

The regs I see say this-

North of Point Conception: No more than ... when fishing for salmon or fishing from a boat with salmon on board (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)).

Water is your friend, it makes things float.

Cheap little inflatable raft, toss the cooler with salmon into the raft, tie raft to the yak (or other boat), then fishing for whatever else. When done fishing, put away the poles, put the cooler back in your yak (or other boat), deflate the raft, go home. Problem solved.

Bushy- 

It’s in the first few words of the regulation you posted. “When fishing with bait and…”

Regulation by omission.  I could easily see a Warden interpreting this way. 

Isn't wintertime FUN!!??  think I'll go out and catch me some sanddabs.

Bouché

It seems to me that trying to determine what a person is "targeting" is highly subjective. For example, when I'm targeting halibut, I sometimes troll with a downrigger and use typical salmon gear. As another example, often when I'm targeting halibut, I only get rockfish as by catch.

How about some strict definitions of what a sabiki rig for baitfish is?  Now, that's not easy.  But hey, if targeting anchovies, hooks smaller than 12 (choose a size, something really small), with flies no longer than 3/8" (choose a size, something really small) on line less than 6# (choose a size, something really small).  See where I'm going with this?  It gets tricker when targeting mackerel, as the gear is usually larger.  But you can catch mackerel on anchovy sized sabikis.

Curious ... does anyone know if I have the same issues when fishing squid jig gangions with rockfish on board?

-Allen

Crash--I'd be real interested where that's found in the regulations.

The regs I see say this-
North of Point Conception: No more than two single-point, single-shank barbless hooks shall be used and no more than one rod per angler when fishing for salmon or fishing from a boat with salmon on board (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)).

40º10' line near Cape Mendocino to Point Conception (CCR T-14, §27.80(a)): When fishing with bait and angling by any means other than TROLLING1, no more than two single-point, single-shank barbless CIRCLE HOOKS 2 shall be used.

So if what you say is true, no bait= no foul? If so, then wouldn't the next sentence also apply, "The distance between the two hooks must not exceed five inches when measured..." In other words shrimp fly jigs would be afoul of the law?

Bushy

The official regs read ...

(3) Other Hook Restrictions. When fishing with bait in the ocean between Horse Mountain (40°05’00”
N. lat.) and Point Conception, if angling by any means other than trolling, then no more than two (2)
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single point, single shank, barbless circle hooks shall be used. The distance between the two hooks
must not exceed five inches when measured from the top of the eye of the top hook to the inner base
of the curve of the lower hook, and both hooks must be permanently tied in place (hard tied). A circle
hook is defined as a hook with a generally circular shape, and a point which turns inwards, pointing
directly to the shank at a 90-degree angle. Trolling is defined as angling from a boat or floating device
that is making way by means of a source of power, other than drifting by means of the prevailing water
current or weather conditions. See Section 28.65(g).

This is in Section 27.80, Subsection a, part (3).

-Allen