New Dungeness Crab Marker buoy requirements

Does anyone know if the 3"x5" second buoy is a minimum size?  In other words if I have a second buoy that is bigger than 3"x5" which is all red, can I use that?

good question! I was wondering the same. I already use marker buoys. they just arent exactly 3 x 5 inches.

I found this

I found this

Ah, yes. The ole “barely legal red rock crab in full fish sniffer pose” money shot.

Does anyone know if the 3"x5" second buoy is a minimum size?  In other words if I have a second buoy that is bigger than 3"x5" which is all red, can I use that?

good question! I was wondering the same. I already use marker buoys. they just arent exactly 3 x 5 inches.

The language seems to indicate that it must be a 3x5. The regs state that the main buoy must be AT LEAST 5x11, but the marker buoy doesn't have AT LEAST in its description.

Admittedly I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here.  But food for thought ...

Anyone who has spent some time on the water can tell at but a glance if a buoy is commercial or sport.  If there is no determination, I sort of believe it's likely that a buoy wasn't involved, in which case, these requirements don't really affect the outcome much.  But there is only one way to find out, and this alternative is much cheaper than requiring auto release mechanisms for everyone, or some rope marking scheme.  The truth is we really don't know the answer, as it was determined they couldn't tell in 44% of the cases.  These regulations are in the hope of gathering more data.

Anyone know what the overall breakdown is between total number of commercial and sport pots on the ocean?

-Allen

My WAG is that the overwhelming majority of traps on the west coast are commercial. Approaching 90% if not more.

So what is your thought then on the percentage of entanglements due to commercial traps vs sports?

-Allen

I think it’s low but we don’t know and the data doesn’t tell us.  We don’t know where the entanglements occur, if there is a pattern, or any other information that could help mitigate entanglements.  California’s stated goal is zero, which seems impossible to me but getting close to it without draconian measures seems like it’s a laudable goal.

We’re talking about $2 a year and some minimal costs for buoys in order to establish some data points.  At least we aren’t using $1,000 per trap sonar releases like we were talking about last year before Bonta got his promotion.

Sorry, you think what is low?  We do know that 98.9% of the 56% identifiable are commercial, so at least ~55% of the entanglements are attributed to commercial.  This "we don't know" argument is a FUD argument that doesn't pass my sniff test.

This tactic is to appease the commercial fishermen who are arguing "we don't know".   It's also a delaying tactic to keep Center for Biological Diversity at bay from pushing for stronger measures, which they will continue to do, but it's convenient to say wait for the data.

https://www.nationalfisherman.com/west-coast-pacific/california-crabbing-changes-draw-fire-from-both-sides

Platt of the crab association says the state’s calculation of the risk unfairly penalizes fishermen.
“It simply isn’t true that 50 percent of all unknown gear interactions are attributable to commercial gear and, in fact, commercial gear will be easily eliminated as a source of the unknown gear in most of those instances,” Platt said in his testimony to the agency. “We also encourage the department to improve the gear marking regulations to require that commercial crab lines, in addition to buoys, be marked, because this would effectively eliminate commercial gear as a source of all unknown entanglements.”

Of course the above argument totally ignores the fact that at least 55% of ALL entanglements are shown to be attributable to commercials.

This sort of stuff makes my head hurt.

-Allen

In the fight between commercial crabbers and the center for biological diversity I'm firmly in the commercial crabbers camp.  I don't want to end up with ropeless gear. 

As far as 55%. that isn't true either. Commercial crabbers accounted for less than that because net entanglements are also counted.  Follow the links in the DFW document i linked above.  This is the historical one from 2017:

https://media.fisheries.noaa.gov/2021-03/tm-opr-63a-final-031921.pdf?VersionId=null

It should also be clear from that link that we don't have good data.  So lets go get good data.  Sorry about your headache.

Ah ... so "commercial" isn't just commercial crab pots.  From that report.

Gear types associated with whale entanglement reports
Gear types were coded into general gear types: net, pot/trap, hook and line, other, and unknown.
“Net” is the general category describing an entanglement where any type of netting, used for
fishing is identified, including gillnet and the California swordfish/thresher shark drift gillnet.
“Hook and line” is the general category describing an entanglement where the fishery identified
uses hook and line to target fish. “Pot/trap” is the general category describing any entanglement
where the identified fishery utilizes a trap or pot to target fish or invertebrates. “Other” is the
general category describing an entanglement where the gear type identified is not hook and line,
netting, or trap/pot. “Unknown” is the general category for an entanglement report where
entangling gear material is unidentifiable to a specific source. Confirmed entanglements were
most often attributed to gear that could not be identified (43%), with netting (34%) and pot/traps
(22%) accounting for the remainder of the entangled whale reports. Since 2000, the proportion of
whales entangled in pot/trap gear has increased, whereas net entanglements have decreased in
prevalence. NMFS was able to identify and confirm the specific fishery or gear in 57% of
confirmed entanglement reports. Gillnet had the highest number of entanglements, 87, with
commercial Dungeness crab pot fishery as second with 73. Other pot/trap fisheries confirmed to
be involved with large whale entanglements are commercial spot prawn, commercial sablefish,
commercial lobster, recreational Dungeness crab and commercial rock crab. When the gear set
location associated with the whale entanglement is known.

Still ... recreational pots are a very low percentage.  73 commercial pots vs. 3 sport pots for those cases (57%) that gear type could be determined.  That being said, sure, let's get the data.  Then what?

-Allen

Given the provided distinction (https://wildlife.ca.gov/Fishing/Ocean/Regulations/Sport-Fishing/Invertebrate-Fishing-Regs) between crab traps and hoop nets,
the latter may be a good choice for folks like me who don't leave their gear overnight and instead check their harvest periodically while on the water.

Added bonus: less likely to get poached since you're likely nearby.

Not that I think paying <$3 and buying an extra buoy is blasphemous...

 

That being said, sure, let's get the data.  Then what?

Make an informed decision about how to maximize fishing opportunity and avoid marine mammal entanglements?

Does anyone have thoughts on if this applies to hoop nets?  I just see reference to “traps”.  I fish off a SUP & drop hoops nets during Dungy season. 

Does anyone have thoughts on if this applies to hoop nets?  I just see reference to “traps”.  I fish off a SUP & drop hoops nets during Dungy season.

From another thread:

From my understanding this new regulation of license and red buoy is for crab traps only, not needed for hoop nets (including the ambush hoop nets)?

Correct.  The ambush type hoop nets are "Type B Hoop Nets" per Title 14 CCR, § 29.80(b) and not a "crab trap" per Title 14 CCR, § 29.80(c).  The regulations around the validation fee and the add'l red 3x5 marker buoy are applicable under Title 14 CCR, § 29.80(c).  You can read the approved changes and the specific language here: https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=195187&inline

That being said, sure, let's get the data.  Then what?

Make an informed decision about how to maximize fishing opportunity and avoid marine mammal entanglements?

It’s a brilliant move by commercial crabbers, delaying any real action until there is more data.

-Allen

If you are looking for the floats outdoor pro has them for $4.

If you are looking for the floats outdoor pro has them for $4.

not anymore

I just ordered some white floats from Cabelas for $3.60 each - I'll paint them red. Add a few other items and they do free express shipping. Mine will be here Friday. The paint will chip, but isn't a big deal to touch up every so often.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/offshore-angler-oval-crab-pvc-foam-float

Cheers,
Brad

I've had good luck with the Rustolium spray paints and using them for crab buoys.  Have to use the primer first, then the color, and it wont flake on ya.

If you are looking for the floats outdoor pro has them for $4.

not anymore

Wow! All of them gone in a week? I guess I was lucky to get them.