So, you think surf launches and landings can be tough?

Love all this!  it can be done!

I found this early in my learning.  It may have some good tips.

This is a really good one Eddie. It applies to sit on top kayaks, and the guide is using a strap. I think that when he broaches, he always leans back and tilts the edge of the kayak into the wave. He is also using a stoke, which looks like broaching (but it’s not), called stern rudder if I’m not mistaken, to control the direction of the kayak when it’s being pushed by waves.

At what point in the video are you noticing this "stoke" move?, stern rudder...

If you look at 4:15 to 4:30 you’d see that the entire time the guide is using the paddle as a rudder. The surf is pushing only the the stern, not the sides like in broaching. It’s the next move for me to learn.
Btw, this is an amazing advanced paddling techniques clip. Doesn’t fully apply to sit in top, but still...

Love all this!  it can be done!

I found this early in my learning.  It may have some good tips.

This is a really good one Eddie. It applies to sit on top kayaks, and the guide is using a strap. I think that when he broaches, he always leans back and tilts the edge of the kayak into the wave. He is also using a stoke, which looks like broaching (but it’s not), called stern rudder if I’m not mistaken, to control the direction of the kayak when it’s being pushed by waves.

At what point in the video are you noticing this "stoke" move?, stern rudder...

If you look at 4:15 to 4:30 you’d see that the entire time the guide is using the paddle as a rudder. The surf is pushing only the the stern, not the sides like in broaching. It’s the next move for me to learn.
Btw, this is an amazing advanced paddling techniques clip. Doesn’t fully apply to sit in top, but still...

That's some skills...gonna practice that stern rudder over time in the surf.  Gear stowed...gotta dig, my kayak is long and heavy but it can be done...thanks for pointing out the details...

Stern rudder in one sentence:
You like go right, poke right, you like go left, poke left.

Small Linda mar on a high tide is a great place to practice, you have a long mellow mush ball you can really get the feel for steering on.

Aloha,

Isao

Stern rudder in one sentence:
You like go right, poke right, you like go left, poke left.

Small Linda mar on a high tide is a great place to practice, you have a long mellow mush ball you can really get the feel for steering on.

Aloha,

Isao

Yeah brahhdah! I noticed that many of the techniques he does in the video come naturally after a few years paddling.  Been stern ruddering for a while just not into a foamy broachy leany into the wavy victory yet

This is a really good one Eddie. It applies to sit on top kayaks, and the guide is using a strap. I think that when he broaches, he always leans back and tilts the edge of the kayak into the wave. He is also using a stoke, which looks like broaching (but it’s not), called stern rudder if I’m not mistaken, to control the direction of the kayak when it’s being pushed by waves.

"Broaching" and "stoke" are apparently Australian kayaking terms.  Here in the You Ess Aye we use the terms front surfing and ruddering, and side surfing and bracing.

When front surfing on a wave towards shore, you don't just rudder to change the direction your kayak is pointing on the wave.  You also need to tilt the kayak so it carves into the turn, just like a surfboard or a snowboard. In a sit-on-top kayak, carving is way easier if you have added thigh straps to your kayak, because they allow you to control the angle of your kayak much better.

When you turn your kayak sideways on a breaking wave to side surf towards shore, you need to shift your weight to the buttock which is away from shore, raise the side of your kayak which is towards shore so it doesn't catch on the green water which is rushing towards it, and brace with your paddle on the foam of the breaking wave.  "Bracing" means that you put the front or back of your paddle blade on the pile of the incoming wave and put weight on it.  This will support and stabilize you.

You can see examples of those techniques in this video:

Fun stuff!

You like go right, poke right, you like go left, poke left.

That's a good one.


Lean forward... go forward, lean back... go back. Look left... go left, look right... go right. Sometimes those small movements make the difference.  In motorcycling, they recommend not to stare too hard at trees or telephone poles as that is where you'll go.

We are all way too familiar with landings that end with a wave pushing us from the back and tilting the kayak to the point where we have to abort - or we tip over. The stern rudder (which may be named differently depending on geography) is the stroke to deal with that

Does anyone with a Hobie use thigh straps?  Coming from whitewater kayaking, using hips and thighs to brace/tilt the hull when crossing currents, going through water features etc was critical.  Every whitewater sit-on-top kayak I've seen uses thigh straps and they seem like they'd be extremely useful for surf situations when countering a wave.  Easy to unclip and stow once you're out beyond the breaking waves too.  Just curious.

I've been whitewater kayaking since 1985, and I have both of my sit-on-top fishing kayaks (a Hobie Revolution and an Ocean Kayak Trident) set up with attachment points for thigh straps.  They greatly increase the control I have over those kayaks when going in and out through surf.

I thought about putting them on my stealth but with that boat theyre  not really necassary, the cockpit locks in pretty well, and the secondary stability is excellent so you can actually hold an edge.

Coming from a ww /kayak surf background as well I just got too frustrated with the big plastic boats to have much fun. I’m sure thigh straps help a lot but because they’re designed with such a focus on initial stability they don’t really hold an edge so theyre just too limiting on the ocean for me. It’s damn near impossible to not either have them pearl or immediately turn sideways in waves.

I'm putting "kayak" thigh straps on the Christmas list unless  they're delivered early for Thanksgiving gifts, wait...do we do gifts on Thanksgiving in America?  I guess I could start a new tradition within my personal person family.

 "Hi honey,"  I'm thinking about getting some kayak thigh straps for Thanksgiving.  What do ya' think?"

On a side note, anyone have any preference in brand, NRS?...

We are all way too familiar with landings that end with a wave pushing us from the back and tilting the kayak to the point where we have to abort - or we tip over. The stern rudder (which may be named differently depending on geography) is the stroke to deal with that

This video shows good technique for ruddering with a kayak paddle.  The paddle should be parallel to the keel of your kayak, and over the water next to your kayak.  The blade of your paddle should knife through the water with little resistance.  If your paddle crosses your kayak at an angle when you're ruddering, its blade will create a lot of drag, and if you're surfing it will tend to pull you back off the wave.  When surfing fast and violent waves, to protect the shoulder of your rear arm, keep the elbow of that arm next to your side, and don't let your hand go behind your hip.  The further your rear hand and elbow go behind your hip, and the higher your rear elbow is, the more you expose your shoulder to injury.  And don't leave your shoulders facing straight forward when ruddering, as that won't let you assume good arm position - instead, rotate your upper body and shoulders towards the side you are ruddering on, and straighten and reach forward with your forward arm.

The video shows kayakers ruddering in flat water, so the kayaks stay flat on the water.  When ruddering to control the direction of your kayak when you're surfing a moving wave in surf, or a stationary wave on a river, you need to lean out over your paddle and shift your weight to the buttock on the side of the paddle in order to tilt the kayak up on edge to carve into the turn.  In a whitewater or surf kayak you can do radical and sweeping "S" turns on the face of the wave, carving from one side to the other as you do the turns, but the hulls of fishing kayaks aren't suited to that kind of activity.  However, you can carve a sharp turn to one side or the other in order to go back over the top of the wave.

I'm putting "kayak" thigh straps on the Christmas list unless  they're delivered early for Thanksgiving gifts, wait...do we do gifts on Thanksgiving in America?  I guess I could start a new tradition within my personal person family.

 "Hi honey,"  I'm thinking about getting some kayak thigh straps for Thanksgiving.  What do ya' think?"

On a side note, anyone have any preference in brand, NRS?...

If you do an internet search for "thigh straps kayak," a bunch of options will pop up.  Get straps which have clips at their front and back so you can clip them into existing or specially installed padeyes on the hull of your kayak.  Some thigh straps for inflatable kayaks don't come with clips, and would be installed permanently by running their straps through "D" rings or webbing loops installed on the inflatable kayak for thigh straps. 

Once you launch and get out through the surf, you could leave your thigh straps in place until you're ready to go back to the beach. However, if you leave the thigh straps in place, their nylon will be hook magnets.  I unclip the front of my thigh straps, leave the rear attached, and tuck the straps behind my seat while I'm fishing.  It only takes a second to re-attach the front of the straps when you're ready to return to shore.

I'm putting "kayak" thigh straps on the Christmas list unless  they're delivered early for Thanksgiving gifts, wait...do we do gifts on Thanksgiving in America?  I guess I could start a new tradition within my personal person family.

 "Hi honey,"  I'm thinking about getting some kayak thigh straps for Thanksgiving.  What do ya' think?"

On a side note, anyone have any preference in brand, NRS?...

If you do an internet search for "thigh straps kayak," a bunch of options will pop up.  Get straps which have clips at their front and back so you can clip them into existing or specially installed padeyes on the hull of your kayak.  Some thigh straps for inflatable kayaks don't come with clips, and would be installed permanently by running their straps through "D" rings installed on the inflatable kayak for thigh straps. 

Once you launch and get out through the surf, you could leave your thigh straps in place until you're ready to go back to the beach. However, if you leave the thigh straps in place, their nylon will be hook magnets.  I unclip the front of my thigh straps, leave the rear attached, and tuck the straps behind my seat while I'm fishing.  It only takes a second to re-attach the front of the straps when you're ready to return to shore.

Thanks brah, I'm on it.  Stay tuned...

hmmm... the kayak straps are looking like a definite add to my list as well.  Will have to remember to consider bringing helmet along with the gear tho. 

Although more control is allotted with the straps, it seems that it does add some danger factor with the fishing kayaks in surf... ejections from yak vs. being locked in? I have enjoyed the occasional(or more often) tossing, but stuff like turtling and pitch poling in the kayak seemed more disconcerting..

good stuff in this thread... stokes

hmmm... the kayak straps are looking like a definite add to my list as well.  Will have to remember to consider bringing helmet along with the gear tho. 

Although more control is allotted with the straps, it seems that it does add some danger factor with the fishing kayaks in surf... ejections from yak vs. being locked in? I have enjoyed the occasional(or more often) tossing, but stuff like turtling and pitch poling in the kayak seemed more disconcerting..

The straps slip right off when your legs straighten.