Stinson launch 5.23

This language is really sad to see:
rules are stupid, without any common sense
we're just idiotic COVID carrying morons

Go post something with optimism and stop being so negative.  Great and good things come from being positive - here, family, work, life.

You must have a bone to pick with me.  I did post something positive when someone asked about launching in Marin bay side and you shot it down, even after many others said it was also possible. 

And now you’re quoting me out of context with a one-sided view point. 
I wrote “some of the rules are stupid”.  Not all of them.  Remember when the government said playing tennis was okay, but you can’t touch the ball?   The people writing the SIP aren’t thinking about kayak fishermen in mind.

“We’re just idiotic COVID carrying morons”.  Okay, lots of sarcasm there... but have you been to Bolinas recently?  Probably not.  They don’t want us there.  They don’t want anyone outside there.  Yet, there has been at least 1-2 reports or people asking where to park there on this very forum.  Not everyone is a fishermen and understands our viewpoint of why it’s important to us.  As someone mentioned before, I’d like to be able to go back to Bolinas when this is all over without any broken glass and slashed tires on my truck.

Try thinking past yourself a little more. Why do you feel I’m being negative?  Because I love this community so damn much that it pisses me off seeing the lack of common sense and respect for the local communities who aren’t fishermen. 

 If you want to discuss more, then feel free to PM me.

It wasn't that long ago that FishingAddict was being a constant dick about anyone fishing San Mateo Coast...only because he didn't feel it was safe.  Your message is good and all, but you are not in any position to be putting people on blast and telling them they need to be more positive.  I'm too lazy to dig up your posts, but you posted some grim ass scenarios about shark attacks that may happen to us, which is beyond negative, borderline dark. 

You can sit your ass back down pretending to be all high and mighty. 

Who's next...who wants me to rip em a new one?   

........I’m your huckleberry. 




I just want to know why residents in the “small communities” feel entitled to use state owned parks and beaches while telling everyone else to stay out.  It would seem that it’s geographically discriminatory  to limit a public access to a publicly owned resource. Aside from being elitistly dickheadish, it sounds like a lawsuit to me.

If the state wants to limit mass gatherings at the beach then shouldn’t it be off limits to the entire state to avoid discriminating against its own citizens?

If one were truly fearful of outsiders and their cooties, would it not be a safer option to just follow their own advice and stay the fuck home instead of going to the beach where cooties may pounce on you?

If one posts a report from a “protected” community, is it not an expression of civil disobedience? 

I just don’t understand how one can have their head so far up their own ass that they don’t see how shitty their opinion is. 

PS.....I’d post some pics of covid-19 bass and a nice striper I plugged yesterday, all outside my county) but the videos all had distinguishing landmarks that’d blow up the spots. 

First of all, do you even kayak fish bro?   

I'd like to see these pics/videos and see if I can burn your spot. 

IMO, I think specific towns like Bolinas and others in Marin/Sonoma/San Mateo county are different than the other counties.  Not all the residents dislike outsiders/tourists (I've met plenty of nice local Bolinas residents) but it's those visitors, whether civil disobedience or straight disregard, for city/county/state law which can cause problems.  And of those who are kayak fishermen, it paints a negative mental connotation for the rest of us trying to abide the rules (whether I agree with the rules or not). 

The point I was trying to make was that I may not agree with the SIP rules, but some local residents may completely agree with them.  Now if I have to travel into their neighborhood, disregarding SIP rules that they agree with but I don't (making me look selfish and non-abiding of the law), then how does that make other kayak fishermen look.  Oh ok... you can't say all people will generalize what I do is what all kayak fishermen do, but you damn well know it happens.

Now, let's make a different argument based on what you said.  Here in Contra Costa county, regional parks are open for recreational use.  Example:  I'm a pissed off local, telling people to stay away from my neighborhood launch, and stop coming in because you're spreading the disease but you're doing your due diligence of 6ft social distancing and making some effort of being safe.  Think calling the cops will do anything?  I'd be up shit creek and a gumpy old man because the police won't do anything.  You have the right to be there within the SIP rules.  No other argument about it.

I'm gonna youtube myself with a rod when I hit up Ranch 99 supermarket next time.
Please blow up that spot for me.

This language is really sad to see:
rules are stupid, without any common sense
we're just idiotic COVID carrying morons

Go post something with optimism and stop being so negative.  Great and good things come from being positive - here, family, work, life.

You must have a bone to pick with me.  I did post something positive when someone asked about launching in Marin bay side and you shot it down, even after many others said it was also possible. 

And now you’re quoting me out of context with a one-sided view point. 
I wrote “some of the rules are stupid”.  Not all of them.  Remember when the government said playing tennis was okay, but you can’t touch the ball?   The people writing the SIP aren’t thinking about kayak fishermen in mind.

“We’re just idiotic COVID carrying morons”.  Okay, lots of sarcasm there... but have you been to Bolinas recently?  Probably not.  They don’t want us there.  They don’t want anyone outside there.  Yet, there has been at least 1-2 reports or people asking where to park there on this very forum.  Not everyone is a fishermen and understands our viewpoint of why it’s important to us.  As someone mentioned before, I’d like to be able to go back to Bolinas when this is all over without any broken glass and slashed tires on my truck.

Try thinking past yourself a little more. Why do you feel I’m being negative?  Because I love this community so damn much that it pisses me off seeing the lack of common sense and respect for the local communities who aren’t fishermen. 

 If you want to discuss more, then feel free to PM me.

It wasn't that long ago that FishingAddict was being a constant dick about anyone fishing San Mateo Coast...only because he didn't feel it was safe.  Your message is good and all, but you are not in any position to be putting people on blast and telling them they need to be more positive.  I'm too lazy to dig up your posts, but you posted some grim ass scenarios about shark attacks that may happen to us, which is beyond negative, borderline dark. 

You can sit your ass back down pretending to be all high and mighty. 

Who's next...who wants me to rip em a new one?   

........I’m your huckleberry. 




I just want to know why residents in the “small communities” feel entitled to use state owned parks and beaches while telling everyone else to stay out.  It would seem that it’s geographically discriminatory  to limit a public access to a publicly owned resource. Aside from being elitistly dickheadish, it sounds like a lawsuit to me.

If the state wants to limit mass gatherings at the beach then shouldn’t it be off limits to the entire state to avoid discriminating against its own citizens?

If one were truly fearful of outsiders and their cooties, would it not be a safer option to just follow their own advice and stay the fuck home instead of going to the beach where cooties may pounce on you?

If one posts a report from a “protected” community, is it not an expression of civil disobedience? 

I just don’t understand how one can have their head so far up their own ass that they don’t see how shitty their opinion is. 

PS.....I’d post some pics of covid-19 bass and a nice striper I plugged yesterday, all outside my county) but the videos all had distinguishing landmarks that’d blow up the spots. 

First of all, do you even kayak fish bro?   

I'd like to see these pics/videos and see if I can burn your spot. 

This language is really sad to see:
rules are stupid, without any common sense
we're just idiotic COVID carrying morons

Go post something with optimism and stop being so negative.  Great and good things come from being positive - here, family, work, life.

You must have a bone to pick with me.  I did post something positive when someone asked about launching in Marin bay side and you shot it down, even after many others said it was also possible. 

And now you’re quoting me out of context with a one-sided view point. 
I wrote “some of the rules are stupid”.  Not all of them.  Remember when the government said playing tennis was okay, but you can’t touch the ball?   The people writing the SIP aren’t thinking about kayak fishermen in mind.

“We’re just idiotic COVID carrying morons”.  Okay, lots of sarcasm there... but have you been to Bolinas recently?  Probably not.  They don’t want us there.  They don’t want anyone outside there.  Yet, there has been at least 1-2 reports or people asking where to park there on this very forum.  Not everyone is a fishermen and understands our viewpoint of why it’s important to us.  As someone mentioned before, I’d like to be able to go back to Bolinas when this is all over without any broken glass and slashed tires on my truck.

Try thinking past yourself a little more. Why do you feel I’m being negative?  Because I love this community so damn much that it pisses me off seeing the lack of common sense and respect for the local communities who aren’t fishermen. 

 If you want to discuss more, then feel free to PM me.

It wasn't that long ago that FishingAddict was being a constant dick about anyone fishing San Mateo Coast...only because he didn't feel it was safe.  Your message is good and all, but you are not in any position to be putting people on blast and telling them they need to be more positive.  I'm too lazy to dig up your posts, but you posted some grim ass scenarios about shark attacks that may happen to us, which is beyond negative, borderline dark. 

You can sit your ass back down pretending to be all high and mighty. 

Who's next...who wants me to rip em a new one?   

Might be the "addict" thing...good food on that grub page though...

IMO, I think specific towns like Bolinas and others in Marin/Sonoma/San Mateo county are different than the other counties.  Not all the residents dislike outsiders/tourists (I've met plenty of nice local Bolinas residents) but it's those visitors, whether civil disobedience or straight disregard, for city/county/state law which can cause problems.  And of those who are kayak fishermen, it paints a negative mental connotation for the rest of us trying to abide the rules (whether I agree with the rules or not). 

The point I was trying to make was that I may not agree with the SIP rules, but some local residents may completely agree with them.  Now if I have to travel into their neighborhood, disregarding SIP rules that they agree with but I don't (making me look selfish and non-abiding of the law), then how does that make other kayak fishermen look.  Oh ok... you can't say all people will generalize what I do is what all kayak fishermen do, but you damn well know it happens.

Now, let's make a different argument based on what you said.  Here in Contra Costa county, regional parks are open for recreational use.  Example:  I'm a pissed off local, telling people to stay away from my neighborhood launch, and stop coming in because you're spreading the disease but you're doing your due diligence of 6ft social distancing and making some effort of being safe.  Think calling the cops will do anything?  I'd be up shit creek and a gumpy old man because the police won't do anything.  You have the right to be there within the SIP rules.  No other argument about it.

 I can’t find a single point in this that justifies government endorsed discrimination.  Can you explain why any government entity should legally disallow a certain sector of the public from accessing a place that we all own?

That.....and.....I’ve been part of this community since before it was a community, there’s a couple dozen posts every year with people whining about how this or that “makes us look bad”.  The reality I’ve learned, is that outside of the handful of people discussing it on the Internet....nobody really cares.

 

 I can’t find a single point in this that justifies government endorsed discrimination.  Can you explain why any government entity should legally disallow a certain sector of the public from accessing a place that we all own?

Its not government endorsed discrimination, its specific county and local regulations.  Talk specifics, don't generalize.  I was giving examples to specifics such as Bolinas, which fall into Marin county SIP regulations, or Half Moon Bay/Pacifica which is San Mateo county.  Those specific places are not currently open to non-residents.  Residents in those counties need to follow those rules being put on them, but as a non-resident you believe you get to skirt the law?  And yes, I agree with you that we have the "right" to coastal access (because it was given to us in the California Coastal Act) but I don't believe we "own" it. 

Now about the "making us look bad" part, you may not care, maybe the circle of people you know don't care, but I know plenty of others who do care.  I may not be as long as a kayak fisherman as you, but I've seen plenty of fishing access areas completely restricted, removed, and barricaded over the last 20 years.  Well before YouTube and Social media existed, and it wasn't politics, climate change, or whatever you want to use an excuse.  It was locals tired of fisherman not respecting the neighborhood, leaving trash, loud noises early in the morning or late at night, parking on private property...

They care, you just don't hear about it until its too late.

You guys are using too many big words and my brain hurts.   

Its pretty clear everyone has their own opinion so debating about it here isn't going to convince anyone else to see your point of view.  Let's just go back to posting fishing reports yeah?

Everyone just needs to light one up and chillllllllllllll.

You guys are using too many big words and my brain hurts.   

Its pretty clear everyone has their own opinion so debating about it here isn't going to convince anyone else to see your point of view.  Let's just go back to posting fishing reports yeah?

Everyone just needs to light one up and chillllllllllllll.

Hahaha... I've been regularly reading each of Marin, Sonoma, Contra Costa, Alameda, San Mateo, and San Francisco's local SIP/County Health Orders and Regulations (both the General Health Order and any releases/memos/PDFs regarding "Essential Construction") on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.  Partly its my job to know as a project manager when sending crews out to each county, prepping them with the right information, equipment, and emergency protocols if something were to happen.  Each county is similar to the next but there's some specific differences within each.  I admit I haven't read Santa Clara's SIP orders... for two reasons: 1) there's no body of water that interests me to fish down there, and 2) there's another project manager that handles that area 

This is jelly beans compared to reading those... and I don't want to be hostile, I prefer a strong discussion.  You should see some of the PM arguments I had with other members a few months back.

Stinson State Beach, Pacifica State Beach, Half Moon Bay State Beach.....is that specific enough?  They are state beaches, any order to close should come from the the governor and should apply to all resident of the state not just people that live outside the county of that the beach is in. Disallowing access to a state run public resource based on residency is a very discriminatory practice. Local closure orders are bullshit.  If the public allowed these pocket communities to dictate public access we would have been kicked off the beaches long ago and the state beach system would have been a private playground for the elite. 

Maybe you can address the rest of my questions and explain why you feel it’s okay for a local government entity to limit access to a state resource just because it’s in their backyard. Why it shouldn’t be shut down for everyone.  Why a better strategy for the safety concerns can’t be resolved by just staying home since the beaches are so deadly. 

Stinson State Beach, Pacifica State Beach, Half Moon Bay State Beach.....is that specific enough?  They are state beaches, any order to close should come from the the governor and should apply to all resident of the state not just people that live outside the county of that the beach is in. Disallowing access to a state run public resource based on residency is a very discriminatory practice. Local closure orders are bullshit.  If the public allowed these pocket communities to dictate public access we would have been kicked off the beaches long ago and the state beach system would have been a private playground for the elite.

I agree with the above statement 100% , and yes I filmed the bolinas halibut bite.  I've been respectful of the location and support their community by buying things there. However, They don't own the ocean. They don't own the state beach. It's not a crime to film. What a "local" think of me has no relevance to my life. If  a person slashes tires and breaks onto a car it is a crime and that person should be treated as a criminal to the fullest extent of the law.

I think "over all" as  a kayak fishing community we have been respectful. Enough of the drama. I guess the SIP is making people kookie. Get out and go fishing. Geez

Stinson State Beach, Pacifica State Beach, Half Moon Bay State Beach.....is that specific enough?  They are state beaches, any order to close should come from the the governor and should apply to all resident of the state not just people that live outside the county of that the beach is in. Disallowing access to a state run public resource based on residency is a very discriminatory practice. Local closure orders are bullshit.  If the public allowed these pocket communities to dictate public access we would have been kicked off the beaches long ago and the state beach system would have been a private playground for the elite. 

Maybe you can address the rest of my questions and explain why you feel it’s okay for a local government entity to limit access to a state resource just because it’s in their backyard. Why it shouldn’t be shut down for everyone.  Why a better strategy for the safety concerns can’t be resolved by just staying home since the beaches are so deadly.

Okay, let's break it down. 

Stinson State Beach, Pacifica State Beach, Half Moon Bay State Beach are all closed by the State of California, not the local county ordinances. 
Source?  Directly from the covid19.ca.gov website
"State Parks, campgrounds, museums, and visitor centers have been closed to help slow the spread of the virus. A list of all closures can be found at www.parks.ca.gov/flattenthecurve. See a list of outdoor spaces that are open on the Public recreation page.
You can walk, run, hike and bike in your local neighborhoods as long as they continue to practice social distancing of 6 feet. This means avoiding crowded trails & parking lots. Californians should not travel significant distances and should stay close to home.
For information on National Parks, please the National Park Service website."

So its not a local government entity as you're saying that is closing the state parks, its the California Executive Order.  Wait Wait Wait… The quote above says "STATE PARKS" and not "STATE BEACHES"... okay okay… let's do more digging.
I searched more on the covid19.ca.gov website that led me to the CA Parks and Rec website (https://www.parks.ca.gov/)...
Then from there I found this page (https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=30381) with a link for "Best Practices for Parks and Beaches during COVID-19"..
Click and https://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/712/files/Best-Practices-for-Parks-and-Beaches-During-COVID-19.pdf

"...Best practices for safe beach access include, but may not be limited to, the following:

Temporary Parking Restrictions to Ensure Minimal Passive Recreation Beach Usage
Temporary closure of all beach parking lots
Temporary on-street parking prohibitions in areas surrounding beach parks – including residential neighborhoods adjacent to beaches
Residential parking permit programs in residential areas surrounding beach parks
Active parking enforcement efforts

Service Reductions:
 Maintain closure of all public facing facilities (restrooms, rinse stations, drinking fountains)
Close piers, trails or access which do not allow for physical distancing

Inability to Maintain Physical Distancing and Prohibit Gathering:
If issues with appropriate physical distancing cannot be met, then the local should have the ability to monitor and adapt operations to remedy any unsafe conditions, which may include temporary closure."


I think in the last line there, there must be a grammar error.  I assume they meant to say "local jurisdiction" or "local governing body", but I'll let you make your own assumptions.

I'm not trying to one up anyone here.  Its not pride on my end motivating me to keep this discussion going.  New information is coming out every day and every week.  I'm just as upset that we cant fish these areas, but the regulations, whether state or local, is out there for everyone to read.  If I want to fish a particular area, then I'd like to be up-to-date on the latest regulations.  No different than staying on top of yearly fishing license changes and in-year changes.


Some more additional information:
- Stinson Beach is NOT a state beach.  Its part of the Golden Gate National Rec Area (GGNRA).

- Half Moon Bay State Beach
UPDATE (May 30, 2020) - As California State Parks begins working with locals on a phased and regionally-driven approach to increase access to state park units where compliance with state and local public health ordinances can be achieved, it is important for visitors to continue to practice physical distancing and avoid congregating with people outside their immediate household. Everyone has the responsibility to mitigate the spread of COVID-19.

Here are some guidelines for people visiting Half Moon Bay State Beach:

What is open now?
The following is open at the park:
Very limited parking in the main day-use lot will now available to the public in the Francis Beach lot, Venice Beach lot, and Cowell Ranch lot.
Restrooms will be partially reopened.
Trails will be open for access.
Visitors must wear masks at the kiosks for day use entry in accordance with San Mateo County health order.
Visitors to engage in active recreation only.
What is currently closed at this park and throughout the State Park System?
At this park:
Parking facilities at Dunes Beach remain closed.
Picnic tables and gathering spots will be closed.
Statewide:
Campgrounds.
High public-use indoor facilities, including museums and visitor centers.
Special events and tours continue to be canceled until further notice.

Are there any new visitor guidelines?
Yes, please see below:
Stay Local: Stay close to home. Walk or bike into the park. Parking is very limited. Do not take road trips to parks and beaches or to neighboring states.
Stay Active: Keep walking, jogging, hiking and biking. Watch for one-way trails.
Stay Safer at 6 Feet: Maintain a physical distance of 6 feet or more. Gatherings, picnics and parties are not allowed. Visitors will be asked to leave if there are too many people at the park, beach or on trails to allow for the required physical distance.
Stay Clean: Be prepared. Bring soap/sanitizer and pack out all trash.
Stay Covered: If your county health orders require it, please be sure to wear face coverings when you cannot maintain a safe 6-foot distance from others.

Thank you for your patience and continued support of California State Parks as we work to limit your risk for exposure to COVID-19 in the outdoors. For more information, please visit parks.ca.gov/FlattenTheCurve.

- Pacifica State Beach is operated by the City of Pacifica. 
https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=524

Stinson State Beach, Pacifica State Beach, Half Moon Bay State Beach.....is that specific enough?  They are state beaches, any order to close should come from the the governor and should apply to all resident of the state not just people that live outside the county of that the beach is in. Disallowing access to a state run public resource based on residency is a very discriminatory practice. Local closure orders are bullshit.  If the public allowed these pocket communities to dictate public access we would have been kicked off the beaches long ago and the state beach system would have been a private playground for the elite.

I agree with the above statement 100% , and yes I filmed the bolinas halibut bite.  I've been respectful of the location and support their community by buying things there. However, They don't own the ocean. They don't own the state beach. It's not a crime to film. What a "local" think of me has no relevance to my life. If  a person slashes tires and breaks onto a car it is a crime and that person should be treated as a criminal to the fullest extent of the law.

I think "over all" as  a kayak fishing community we have been respectful. Enough of the drama. I guess the SIP is making people kookie. Get out and go fishing. Geez

+1 just shut up and fish!

I think you’re missing the point my man, you keep pointing to rules and trying to explain what they say. I understand them and I’m pretty sure I said I think they’re bullshit and don’t believe what’s happened is right or justified.  I also think the folks here with the stay the fuck out of my backyard are full of shit also. The state made the call to close several weeks ago, I don’t believe they should have relinquished those powers to the local governments.  I believe these ordinances in particular are steeped in political motive and not medically based at all.  That should be evident in my posts.

You obviously don’t have any issue with the ordinance, do you have any original thoughts on the justification for such ordinances? Or are you just for them because that’s what the orders say?

No, I don’t think I’m missing your opinion.

You don’t like the temporary ordinances and rules that are taking place.  I agree with you on some of that.

You think there’s some ulterior motive, whether political or aligning to some conspiracy.  I don’t know about that much but I want to believe a part of it is truly for safety. 

You have your opinion and whether you think or want to believe what the state did, but they DID it.  I’m not justifying what they did but I’m outline what they did with facts.  You can’t ignore it as a resident of California even if you disagree with it. 

Now how we respond and finding a way to get the solution we want to end up in, is up to us and our peers.  The State and local laws should follow if there’s enough data and argument to convince them to overturn their orders (which is already happening in certain counties).

Original thoughts?  Have you not read what I’ve been typing between the quotes and outlines?  I already said i agreed with what most are disgruntled about.  I think the Heath Orders were somewhat poorly handled and testing mismanaged.  But that could go on national level.  At least we’re not as bad as some states in the East coast. 

Now, let me ask you this.  Do you think Covid-19 is fake?  You think all these rules is infringing on your freedom and rights?  Is it impossible to hold out for a few more weeks?  Do you personally know anyone tested positive and/or on their death bed?

I do.  His name is Greg Kwei. He’s a close family friend and I’m good friends with his son.  His son recently got married two weeks ago (witnesses only) and Greg was there, everything seemed fine.  Greg tested positive last week, no idea how he got it since he stays home, except for the wedding.  He’s now Alta Bates in Oakland. Sedated, on a breathing tube.  One day, doctors say he’s got a few hours, then his body pulls thru and the next day, there might be some experimental treatment.  I just remodeled his whole condo in February, he’s barely been able to enjoy it. 

So my thoughts?  The rules to me, pertaining kayak fishing access, are the rules, whether I like them or not.  I also know they’re only temporary.  Like I said before, whether you choose to follow them or not, is on you and if you were within my circle of fishing friends, then I’d rather not know what you’re doing.

Look guys, I think this argument has devolved. Simplycook, I’m sorry for your friend and wish the best for him.

Look, the argument of civil liberties vs public health has been debated at the level of the Supreme Court, I don’t think we are going to solve it here. A government’s (local, state, national) primary responsibility is to protect the well being of it’s citizens (I believe this to be true). Sometimes, that responsibility steps on civil liberties for the sake of the greater good. Sometimes it makes sense, other times it does not. Taking our shoes off and going through the scanner in the TSA line before boarding planes (remember those days?), the 8pm curfew in Minneapolis enforced by the national guard (terrible situation) these make sense. on the other hand, we allowed illegal wire tapping by the NSA in an effort to thwart terrorism.

Its good to know we have smart people on both sides of the issue. Practice debating and explore the discourse. If an issue comes up that affects all ocean fishermen and we need to rally against it, good to know we have smart folks that can put up a fight.

Yeah. Let’s go fish.