Hobie Outback Vs. Revo 16

I have the Reliable bag and it's sort of rediculously big and funny looking on the revo 13. Nothing to really strap it down with unless you add some pad-eyes on to the hull. It will slide off because the big hatch isn't flat. I don't try to reach for the hatch unless it's flat calm so trying to unzip that bag can be difficult.

Good to know! What do you use? Want something that will hold a couple of halibut...

A gunny sack or game clips only for now. I'm still learning myself

For a catch bag, I use Silver Horde Catch Kooler with coffee sack (for puncture protection), much more affordable. 

As far as live bait, I use a throw-aboard live tank (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Frabill-Flow-Troll-Minnow-Bucket-6-qt/15908366?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=2119&adid=22222222227001239362&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=43324372952&wl4=pla-63786519831&wl5=9061323&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=15908366&veh=sem&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-M2_jqCD5gIVcxh9Ch3IYAkeEAQYEiABEgLYz_D_BwE)

I have the Santa Cruz Raptor G2, you're welcome to take a look at anytime.

On a completely different track, I actually looked at the Santa Cruz Raptor G2. ... Would you use a mirage drive for that? Lastly - who’s had one and how was it?

I had a G2 but didn't get to use it much, as the wife got some strange idea that 4 kayaks was too many. So I had to get rid of it after doing all kinds of cool mods. And I'm no longer bitter about it (well, maybe just a little...)

Yes, the mirage drive is what you'd want to use for the G2 pedal system.

The G2 is a unique design, very stable and it should excel in surf launch/landing. But there are always tradeoffs. The weakness of the G2 would be if you want to, say, troll for salmon, in which case the Revo (or even Outback) would likely be a far superior option.

The potential to easily add a legitimate sail to the Revo is another plus that I don't think anybody has mentioned yet. From what I see, not a lot of people sail their Hobies (other than the AIs, of course). But, I used to take the sail with me on my Revo almost all the time. In light winds it can give a nice boost for slow trolling (such as bounce-ball for halibut). And there is nothing better than sailing back to the launch when the wind picks up and conditions become unfishable. Without amas, it requires a little more attention to sail, but it is definitely do-able under a pretty wide range of conditions.

For a catch bag, I use Silver Horde Catch Kooler with coffee sack (for puncture protection), much more affordable. 

As far as live bait, I use a throw-aboard live tank (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Frabill-Flow-Troll-Minnow-Bucket-6-qt/15908366?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=2119&adid=22222222227001239362&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=43324372952&wl4=pla-63786519831&wl5=9061323&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=15908366&veh=sem&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-M2_jqCD5gIVcxh9Ch3IYAkeEAQYEiABEgLYz_D_BwE)

I have the Santa Cruz Raptor G2, you're welcome to take a look at anytime.

You have the 40” x 16”? Also, on the revo, where do you put it, behind the seat under the bungees?
For the Frabrill - seems like a totally fine solution and gets the bait off the deck. How do the anchovies hold up? Seems like they might get banged up and die pretty quickly if you were going 3-4 mph, but the Frabill looks pretty protected as well.

Thanks for the info in the G2. I’m pondering.

JH

On a completely different track, I actually looked at the Santa Cruz Raptor G2. ... Would you use a mirage drive for that? Lastly - who’s had one and how was it?

I had a G2 but didn't get to use it much, as the wife got some strange idea that 4 kayaks was too many. So I had to get rid of it after doing all kinds of cool mods. And I'm no longer bitter about it (well, maybe just a little...)

Yes, the mirage drive is what you'd want to use for the G2 pedal system.

The G2 is a unique design, very stable and it should excel in surf launch/landing. But there are always tradeoffs. The weakness of the G2 would be if you want to, say, troll for salmon, in which case the Revo (or even Outback) would likely be a far superior option.

The potential to easily add a legitimate sail to the Revo is another plus that I don't think anybody has mentioned yet. From what I see, not a lot of people sail their Hobies (other than the AIs, of course). But, I used to take the sail with me on my Revo almost all the time. In light winds it can give a nice boost for slow trolling (such as bounce-ball for halibut). And there is nothing better than sailing back to the launch when the wind picks up and conditions become unfishable. Without amas, it requires a little more attention to sail, but it is definitely do-able under a pretty wide range of conditions.

Thanks for clearing up the drive mystery on the Santa Cruz Raptor G2. Not sure why they don’t just say which drive to use on their site (or I might have missed it..) Maybe they would get in trouble with Hobie if they cited the compatibility directly.

Also, you’re right, I haven’t really thought about sailing the Hobie, but I would definitely give it a try if that is the way I end up going.

You have the 40” x 16”? Also, on the revo, where do you put it, behind the seat under the bungees?
For the Frabrill - seems like a totally fine solution and gets the bait off the deck. How do the anchovies hold up? Seems like they might get banged up and die pretty quickly if you were going 3-4 mph, but the Frabill looks pretty protected as well.

Thanks for the info in the G2. I’m pondering.

JH

On the bag, I slide them under the bungee.  If I have my crate, I put it behind my seat and crate.  As far as the bait bucket, I put them on the deck if I move (if you leave it in the water, it creates drag).  Not the best thing to keep the bait alive, but it does the job for me.  If you want something you can drag, try a bait tube (https://kayakanglermag.com/tactics-skills/rigging/rigging-skill-diy-bait-tube/).

For Revo 16 questions:

1. It’s not stable. Less stable than Revo 13, but you’ll get the hang of it.
2. Definitely easier to surf launch given how narrow it is. It slices thru water.
3. Depends on your definition of mods. Are you someone who likes to bring the whole kitchen sink, 3 GoPros, cooler, etc?
4. Revos specially the 16s are fast kayak. You’ll use less effort in the wind or current.
5. Depending on the “crap” you’re bringing. I find my Revo sufficient for my needs, although I’ve never taken it for crabbing. Deck space is pretty  limited yet sufficient compared to the outback. You’ll eventually learn to only bring the essentials over time. I bring the most tackles when I’m bass fishing.

I don’t have the latest Outback, mine is the 2015 which I only own for my wife or as a loaner or when I go crabbing so I don’t have much experience with it. All I know is that I hate the positioning of the handles. It’s tricky for me to pick it up compare to the Revo so I only load it on the bed of my truck instead of car topping. I probably just need to learn a better technique I guess.

You’ll never find that “perfect” kayak. You’ll have to compromise somewhere. Only time and experience will let you know if a kayak is right for you based on your fishing style, and then you decide if you want to keep that kayak or move onto something else. Hope that helps.

Revo 13 rocks, I take out 3 square pots  Assembled 2 on back 1 upfront... very stable in swells plus prop wash from idiot PBers at Doran that are determined to buzz you... idiots!!! Revo 16 might be my next adventure!!!

Revo 16 ... adventure!!!

Aha, I see what you did there!

Seriously though, the 16 seems like an awesome boat.

Seriously though, the 16 seems like an awesome boat.

It is. The only problem with the Revo 16 is that it inevitably leads to an AI...

Seriously though, the 16 seems like an awesome boat.

It is. The only problem with the Revo 16 is that it inevitably leads to an AI...

That is exactly the problem I see, haha. Unless there's some upgraded version of the 16 someday.

I know, I know - this conversation again...but with a twist! Outback vs. Revo.

Next year I am going to buy a new fishing kayak and the two I am considering are the Hobie Outback and the Hobie Revo (title says it all). I would love some feedback from folks that have either.  I've listed some of my questions below.

Outback questions:

1. Does the Outback handle surf launches well?
2. Given that the Outback weighs about 20 lbs more, fully loaded, is it too slow/hard to handle when it is choppy and/or the current is strong?
3. Is the Outback really difficult to load (I have a Toyota Tacoma - I think I can just put it on the bed and use and extender, but I would love to put it on the roof rack)?
4. Is the 2019 Outback "spray over the bow" issue real?
5. Does the 2019 Outback really "take on water" when the chop is high?

Revo questions:

1. Is the Revo stable?
2. Is the Revo easier to surf launch than the Outback (I'm looking at you MooMooOutdoors and TLA... I've seen those videos)?
3. Does the Revo require a lot of modification (esp compared to the Outback...)?
4. How does the Revo handle in the current and wind (when compared to the Outback)?
5. Is there enough room on the Revo given that it is 27" versus 34" for the Outback for all the crap we need to fish?

Ok, I think that's enough to get started. Thanks for any details ya'll provide. I'll be grateful when I fork over 2-3K for all of the comments that make me feel better one way or the other.. I'll at least know I've done my due diligence.

At the end of the day, I know there will be blood on the decks with either one - and I'm using a sit kayak now that I can't take out of Tomales Bay.

I went to California Canoe and Kayak today to demo the Revo 13 2020 and the Outback 2020. CCK was awesome for having both boats in stock and awesome for pulling them out in the rain and wind to let me demo them. Their normal Outback demo had a hole in it and had to go back to the factory which was discovered as I was driving to CCK and there was some shuffling to get another unit to the water for me to test. Not sure what this says about the Outback or the shipping methods used to get these things around. It may have just been a fluke, but I think it is relevant information to have.  You do have to pay $40 bucks rental to demo the kayaks, but this can be credited towards a purchase if you buy the kayak within 30 days of the demo. At first this kinda put me off, but after thinking through this I came to terms with the fact that it takes quite a bit of work to store these kayaks, ship them and have them ready to demo. The scale of the kayak business is nothing like the scale of say the car business - so even though demoing is part of marketing, it is probably hard to absorb the demo cost the way other industries like the car industry do.  The owner was there and he was great. He quickly answered questions even though CCK is going through a move, etc.

I want to thank everyone that has responded to all of my questions and offered advice as it really helped me think through some important factors while I was demoing.

On another note, I want to point out that as this thread developed, y’all turned my thinking away from the Revo 16 and towards the Revo 13 for two reasons. Reason one: it seems awkward to handle the Revo 16 alone because of the size. Having a kayak hanging 10’ off the back of my truck doesn’t pass the common sense sniff test either so I’d be stuck putting on the top of my truck 100% of the time. It’s one thing to lift 80 pounds in a 13.5’ package, it’s another thing entirely to lift 80 pounds in a 16’ package. I have been throwing my 13’ kayaks around by myself for a couple of years and that already does funny things to my back, I can only imagine what would happen with 16’ feet of inertia. Reason two:the feedback I’ve been getting from ya’ll is that the Revo 16 is a little more tippy than the Revo 13, although I have not experienced this first hand. I did experience the Revo 13 first hand and it does pitch side to side enough to give you an “o s#!t“ moment when you first get on it.  I can imagine how this same “o s#!t” moment would manifest a little more profoundly when it happens on the Revo 16.

Now, I am going to take my questions and answer them myself based on my demo and will replace Revo 16 with Revo 13 answers.

Outback questions:

1. Does the Outback handle surf launches well?

• Probably not as well as the Revo 13.
• It is absolutely harder to paddle the Outback, which is needed when surf launching as the Mirage Drive can’t be used during this period as far as I can tell, and when you do paddle with the rudder up which is what it seems is the right way to surf launch, it is harder to control Outback than the Revo 13.
• When I took the Outback out at CCK in Oakland, the wind was in the 10-15 mph range which created some chop.
• Current was running against the chop.
• I had a hard time keeping the outback straight in these conditions without the rudder down which means you could unexpectedly turn parallel to a wave in a surf landing and flip. This could even happen if you tried to lean into the wave and use your paddle to manage because it would not be quite as responsive as required due to the width of the deck and the weight of the craft.
• Getting the Outback up to speed quickly, which seems to be essential in a launch/landing situation depending on the frequency of the sets, was more challenging than it was with the Revo 13. I am not a strong paddler. I repeat, I am not a strong paddler - so this may not be the case for the majority of folks out there. I am competent, just not strong.

2. Given that the Outback weighs about 20 lbs more, fully loaded, is it too slow/hard to handle when it is choppy and/or the current is strong?

• It actually handles well in chop and wind when you are using the drive with turbo fins. This in combination with the excellent rudder make it a dream.
• However, if the drive fails, and we know it fails from time to time, then paddling in tough conditions will be a chore. It’s a chore on the Revo 13 too, but more so on the Outback and in bad conditions you’d be best advised to beach as soon as possible and either wait or call for help if you’re anything like me.

3. Is the Outback really difficult to load (I have a Toyota Tacoma - I think I can just put it on the bed and use and extender, but I would love to put it on the roof rack)?

• The outback would not go on the top of my Tacoma if I am by myself. No way.
• It would, however, be just fine in the bed of my truck with a bed extender.

4. Is the 2019 Outback "spray over the bow" issue real?

• Why yes, yes it is.
• The real question is, is this a problem? No, no it is not IF you are dressed for immersion, which I always am.
  • A the moment I wear a 3 MM two piece wetsuit
  • For 2020, I will be wearing a 5 MM farmer john with a neoprene jacket and 5 MM booties with those fancy wet socks to keep myself warm. I shivered a lot in 2019. Needlessly.

5. Does the 2019 Outback really "take on water" when the chop is high?

• Not that I could tell. I lifted the hatch after more than a few waves broke over the bow. Hobie noticed all of the feedback around the 2019 Outback and sealed the hatch well from what I could tell in my initial demo.

Other Outback observations and thoughts

• The outback seems to be a superior fishing platform when compared to the Revo 13 if surf launching is not part of the equation.
• I felt safe moving around the deck, accessing the front hatch, looking behind me, putting my hand behind me as if I were accessing a live well, making moves like I would if I were to throw fish in the storage behind the seat.
• Having dual rudder control would allow management of fish on both sides of the boat more easily than on the Revo 13.
• If you are a strong paddler, I don’t think surf launch/surf landing would be a problem. I am not a great paddler at the moment. I know I will improve with time, but facts are facts.
• You would have to do little to nothing in terms of modifying the Outback with gear track, etc. A note though, the front rod holders were almost useless to me because they are so far forward. I would have to really lean to get to them which I could do because the boat is so stable, but if I am going to stage a net or a gaff in these positions I would not be able to easily/quickly grab that gear when it came time to land the fish which could be disastrous. I’m 5’11 and weigh about 170 - for those of you that are taller, that might not be a problem(I weigh 170 from February to March that is. I weigh slightly more from November to February as gravity increases during the holidays.)
• I want to easily store my rods either in the hull or on deck horizontally so I don’t break stuff when I turtle on launch and landing and this would probably be easier to do on the Outback when it comes to the hull than on the Revo although I found out you can mount H Rails on a Revo which means you can add the horizontal rod holder to your Revo - not sure this is a good idea as I have not really thought through this equation, but it’s possible on the Revo. If someone puts their rods in the hull on their Revo 13, can you describe how you do it (if it’s possible)?
• The Mirage Drive pedals are further away on the Outback so I had to adjust the Mirage Drive to 3. On the Revo 13 I could use it at 5 or 6 which lets you make wider strides, I think. Although when I used small swift strokes with the Mirage Drive, I really picked up speed. So I’m not sure if having the drive at any of the settings makes a difference in terms of speed or efficiency.
• The Mirage Drive easily fits on the deck of the Outback, this is not the case with the Revo 13. With the turbo fins on, it barely fits between the seat and the front hatch of the Revo 13.
• You can turn the center hatch into a temporary bait tank if you needed/wanted to. You could just fill the square hatch liner up with water and put an aerator in the pouch above.  You could probably get by occasionally scooping a few pints of water into the liner every hour or so if you had jacksmelt in there. Anchovies would probably need a pump to bring in fresh water and that would mean modification...

Revo questions:

1. Is the Revo stable?

• Not initially. It takes a few minutes to acclimate, which I seemed to have done quickly.
• As others have said, once you get used to it, it starts to feel stable. And, v shaped hulls cut through waves better and technically have better secondary stability, which from my experience seemed to be true. When I went through chop, it cut the waves and when I got the hang of leaning into the turns it felt good.

2. Is the Revo easier to surf launch than the Outback (I'm looking at you MooMooOutdoors and TLA... I've seen those videos)?

• Without having actually done this, I would guess that it is better at these things.
• It is much easier to paddle the Revo 13 - which is how you have to surf launch.
• It is easier to control when the rudder is up.
• You can actually pull the rudder up onto the deck - you can’t do this on the Outback. When you pull the rudder up, it simply pulls against the bottom of the boat and goes straight which seemed to affect my ability to control the direction of the Outback with a paddle.

3. Does the Revo require a lot of modification (esp compared to the Outback...)?

• Yes, yes it does.
• CCK has someone that can do the mods, so I am a little less worried about this. I don’t want to make these mods myself b/c I don’t want my 3K boat to sink. I modified my present kayak and nothing seems to have gone wrong, but it was not this expensive and I didn’t fish in it as much as a I plan to fish in this one. Also, my current kayak would never go out on the ocean. This kayak will be in much harsher conditions.

4. How does the Revo handle in the current and wind (when compared to the Outback)?

• It is superior to the Outback IMHO.
• In terms of safety, this is a much better deal it seems to me. If winds kick up, chop becomes challenging, and currents create difficulties all at the same time, I would much rather be in the Revo 13 with Turbo fins.
• If the drive breaks and you have to paddle, you will almost certainly have much better chances of returning home faster in the Revo 13 but capsizing could be an issue due to the width of the deck.

5. Is there enough room on the Revo given that it is 27" versus 34" for the Outback for all the crap we need to fish?

• Not before modifications. Modifications will be a fact of life.
• Every detail will have to be extensively thought through. Where will you put your live bait? Where will you store your fish on deck? How will you store rods, nets, and gaffs on launch and landing to be sure that they won’t break or cause damage to your kayak? When you land a fish, how hard will it be to get the darn thing on deck, esp if it’s of significant size and weight? Where will you have the space to bonk a Halibut over the head and have the bonks be meaningful?
• Minimalism will be the order of the day. Make a list of essentials and bring nothing else. This is probably not a bad thing in the end.

Other Revo 13 observations and thoughts

• The Revo is easy to handle. I could throw it on top of my Tacoma alone and not hurt my back. I might not do this, but I could with no problem.
• I didn’t flip the Revo because I’m still getting over a cold, but because of it’s size, I think it would be easier to flip it back over and self rescue due to it’s lighter weight and slim deck. Now, it might flip more often in the first place due to the hull shape and deck width, but there are always trade offs.
• The Revo’s ability to move efficiently though the water probably makes it safer in tough conditions it the drive is intact because you’ll be able to more easily pedal agains the wind, current, and chop. If you have to paddle, it’ll be easier on this machine than on the Outback.
• I’ll be able to use the Revo in more conditions, I think.
• It matters more when I lean to a side in the Revo - this will probably be super helpful in the last few seconds of surf landing when you may need to turn parallel to the wave and lean into the wave to keep from going tail over nose like a few of the folks in this video:

So which kayak will I buy? Probably the Revo 13 now that I walk through all of this. I will be able to use it in more places and as my skill level grows, it allow me to go more places and be more adventurous (i.e. offshore rockfishing and maybe salmon trolling). I would probably love the Outback, but after the first 12 months I would probably want something more responsive and fast. Maybe I’ll buy a 2nd kayak in 2021 and it will be an Outback. Who knows. The next step will be designing all of the modifications so that when I purchase the boat, I can have everything done at once instead of piecemeal. I’ll start a new thread as I go through that process so that those who are interested can give me feedback. I’ll also post the final result as well.

I would still like to demo the Revo 16 after today’s experience just to see how the extra length affects performance. If I do, I’ll let y’all know.[/list]

This has been a great thread. Thanks to everyone who has added their two cents and thank you for posting your detailed review of the 2020's.

I may have missed it if it was mentioned somewhere in the thread, but how big of a paddler are you ? Sorry, not to get too personal but I feel like stability is sometimes a relative term and it really depends on each paddler's individual height, weight, balance, etc.

The reason that I ask is because I've been looking to upgrade from my OK Big Game to a peddle kayak but it's always difficult finding a boat that accommodates a bigger paddler (6'4" 245 in my case). Because of the similarity in hull dimensions to my current kayak, I've been looking closely at the Outback and wondered how well it fits bigger kayakers.

Very good summary.  When you demo the 16, make sure you demo the 13 at the same time for comparison.
As far as surf launch, the best thing to do is your timing then paddle like mad.  I believe whether its the Revos or Outback, they won't make too much difference (The SC Raptor undoubtly beast all yaks that I know).

This has been a great thread. Thanks to everyone who has added their two cents and thank you for posting your detailed review of the 2020's.

I may have missed it if it was mentioned somewhere in the thread, but how big of a paddler are you ? Sorry, not to get too personal but I feel like stability is sometimes a relative term and it really depends on each paddler's individual height, weight, balance, etc.

The reason that I ask is because I've been looking to upgrade from my OK Big Game to a peddle kayak but it's always difficult finding a boat that accommodates a bigger paddler (6'4" 245 in my case). Because of the similarity in hull dimensions to my current kayak, I've been looking closely at the Outback and wondered how well it fits bigger kayakers.

I’m 5’11” and 170 on a good day. I’m a competent paddler, but not a great paddler.