Kayak line looking for a CA dealer... RTM Kayaks (France)

Craig, your not equal to scallen either, more so than I, so, your not allowed to rebut him.  If i said, "t160 is the greatest kayak ever" and scallen said, "no it aint" my response would be, "oh, ok, I agree"    ya see where i'm goin, those kayaks are great and everything, but get to know your craft and build respect in the community before jumpin out there and promotin. 

there is alot yet to be learned young grasshopper

all that being said, i am interested in the kayak's, why wouldn't anyone be???  but really now, if i got one, would i ever hear the end of your forever posts craig???

but... but... but... I didn't rebut anyone, you or Allen    

I didn't say anyone was right or wrong either...  I just gave up where I read the opinion, that's all....

Ima shut up about yaks and just say why I like what I paddle, not that I could have a valid reason for it, apparently...

or maybe I'll just go back to lurking...  

So no JTF, you certainly wouldn't hear a peep from me...  And if someone throws a pack of camels into your truck, it wasn't me either!   

  heh heh, why you like that scupper pro craig?  what you know bout them ocean kayaks?  ya fell off it recently yeah?  was it easy to get back in?   them scuppers are might fine vessels, but that other rtm thing, it looks like an inbred tarpon. 

John, I got back in on the first try, tho i was already pretty exhausted then so i took a good solid 10 seconds doing it...  can't compare, I haven't tried to self-rescue on anything else...  kinda hoping i don't have to.... but I am getting pretty competent at it.  Scott trained me well though.

I guess just feel comfy in the SP..  I should try paddling something else, though, just to see... you are right about that.

Maybe it will be an inbred tarpon!?

have fun tomorrow!

JTF,

When did you paddle a Disco+? You did paddle it right? Or are you speaking out yer butt when you pronounce that it's a T160 ripoff? What with its completely different inspiration (Greenland vs USA Poly Barge), width, length, rocker, overhang, flare, etc...


scallen,

To a large extent, shorter boat=slower top speed. But since 99%+ of us here aren't competitive paddlers, we can hold top speed for a few minutes at best. And then we fall back to cruise speed. The speed we can hold for hours. Cruise speed has a lot to do with factors other than just waterline length. Things like wetted surface area, and prismatic coefficient. So it wouldn't surprise me to find out that when timed over many miles, the Disco+ could hold its own against a T160. When out for a cruise, I was faster in my 17'x22" boat over 9 miles than my 20'x20" boat. For a truly competitive paddler, the reverse would have been true. There are a lot of very happy Coaster owners out there that can cruise all day with the folks in the 17 and 18 foot boats. The Coaster is all of 13 feet long. The Kaskazi Dorado and Pelican are both shorter than the T160. Do you doubt that those two (shorter) boats are faster than the T160?

Craig,

I showed you one re-entry technique, there are plenty of others out there. It wouldn't be a bad idea for you to get professional instruction, I certainly have, on at least 5 different occasions. I also devote a significant amount of kayaking time to practicing self-rescue. Stay safe man, that Muir trip had me worried for you.

See all of you in HMB on Sunday?

Regards,
Scott

Scott,  If you think my personal opinion on the disco is me speakin out my butt, I pretty much know where we stand as fellow kayak fisherman.....and could care less...

and, there is no comparing the Dorado and Pelican to the tarpon, whole different design, there could be times when the t160 was more efficient or vice versa, but as far as plastic sit on tops with equal paddlers, the t160 by design is the faster kayak.  And yes, i've paddled most of all the longer plastic SOT's and have done comparisons.  jtf..

Scott,  If you think my personal opinion on the disco is me speakin out my butt, I pretty much know where we stand as fellow kayak fisherman.....and could care less...

John,

First of all, I'd fish with you any time, and should the absolute worst happen, I'd rescue your "talking ass" in a heartbeat. I hope you'd do the same for me. I also wish you the very best with your efforts towards quitting smoking.

Getting to the to the matter at hand though, it is obvious to me at a glance that the Disco+ and the Tarpon 160 are very different. They seem to come from very different schools of thought regarding what works in a hull. I do believe that the Disco+ certainly borrows from a very old school of kayak design. In fact it's the same one that indirectly inspired WS when they created the Tempest. Now, which of these hulls does not look like the others? Look at the rocker, the overhang, the more pronounced flare at the bow of the Tarpon...

Tarpon


Tempest


Disco


Now if the the Disco+ is a Tarpon 160 ripoff, then it should be easy to tell me what specific elements you feel the two boats share, that didn't exist prior to the creation of the T160. If you can do this, I'll humbly admit to being in the wrong. Also, I'd like to hear just what scenario you envision that places the Pelican or Dorado at a performance disadvantage to the Tarpon? Acceleration? Top speed? Cruising speed? Paperweight?

But mostly what bothered me was that you went about haranguing Craig for talking up the Disco+ when he hasn't paddled a T160. That's fine, but for the exact same reason, how do you rate a pass for talking down the Disco+ when you haven't paddled it? I admit that my asking if you were "talking out yer butt" was inflammatory. More so than I had originally intended once I re-read. But I do believe that unless you have paddled the Disco+ then you are the pot calling the kettle black. And what is it that you have against Craig? Isn't this two threads where you've been rather rude in your comments to him? There's a difference between guidance and a smackdown.

Regards,
Scott


Disclaimer: I've fished with cafecraig on four occasions, I think. It may only have been three. I wouldn't characterize us as close friends, but we're certainly friendly.

yeah yeah, i may be a little rough around the edges when it comes to new guys, I've only one explanation and that would be my 18 years as a carpenter, in that world the young guys are ever respectful of the older more skilled guys, and when a young guy gets outta control, the older guys aren't so nice about it,,,, but,,,, its only because they care about the young guy, its when they dont say anything at all is when its bad. 

I'm not the expert on hull design, but I'm really into these things, my personal opinion once again is that its (disco) has some similarities in the bow and stern design and the sides also, just a shorter version maybe and also a mix of those 2 ws you pictured.   The other, i was saying the dorado and pelican had an advantage because of the hull construction being more similar to a SIT. 

My Disclaimer: Scott, your alright with me.  Newbies, there are many of them on this board now, givin out advice or tryin to teach others.  We as a community should be careful about this.  I myself try to limit where I will give advice on certain topics.  I have alot of experience with the ocean, surfing for 2 decades and now kayakfishing since 2005, I also did a beach landing back in panama from a big steel kayak.  Also, thanks for the well wishes in quittin smokin, I'm 2 weeks in and I feel good, just a little moody at times.  JTF..

I'm not the expert on hull design, but I'm really into these things, my personal opinion once again is that its (disco) has some similarities in the bow and stern design and the sides also, just a shorter version maybe and also a mix of those 2 ws you pictured.

JTF ... I respectfully disagree with you here.

Even from the top view, they are really very different.





-Allen

What?!?  I just looked again at some other photo's and the bottom of this yak is not at all like the tarpon.  And, no matter what I say about this kayak, it seems I'm gonna get some flak for it... It looks to me now like a cross between the 2 ws and the bottom middle section of the prowler.... yeah, yeah, i'm done with this subject until somebody actually gets one and calls me.

I'm not the expert on hull design, but I'm really into these things, my personal opinion once again is that its (disco) has some similarities in the bow and stern design and the sides also, just a shorter version maybe and also a mix of those 2 ws you ly speaking, i believe you do have more experience than i....
e pictured.

JTF ... I respectfully disagree with you here.

Even from the top view, they are really very different.
 alla





-Allen

oh wait, polpole,n, I agree with your disagree , i have not the knowledge and wisdom of yourself, please forgive me, but really????  i would love to see a version of my t160 with a hatch between the legs, a tankwell in the front and a similar hatch in the rear.  wouldn't that be a great yak, plus, less water in the seat. jtf..

a hatch between the legs, a tankwell in the front and a similar hatch in the rear.

Now that's some great stuff right there.  I never do like turning around and would think a tankwell up front would be great.

I miss the good old days when I paddled the Triple and had essentially a tankwell/milk crate in front of me.

Heck, some of you guys like the 2 hatch yaks.  For me, bring on the 2 tankwell yaks.  Although give me something like the XFactor slanted hatch so I can still get rods in and out.

-Allen

From a fishing standpoint, tankwells are a convenience. But if you ever need to rescue someone, a tankwell makes for very little buoyancy. Look at the pictures of Franksfishing and SurfingMarmot on the back of my Scupper Pro TW. Now imagine being offshore 2 miles, in somewhat crummy weather. And no one responding to your VHF mayday calls.




See how much better (but still bad) it is when the Marmot is able to scoot closer to the center of the boat? Look at where I'm seated, in order to get the bow anywhere near the water. A rescue would be so much easier with a twin hatch boat with all that extra flotation astern. T160 twin hatch = Yummy!!

I do think that the folks behind the MacSki may be on to something with their shallow well in the bow. But I just can't love the fullness of the MacSki. At least not by just looking at it.  My gut feel, from punching through lots of surf in lots of different boats, is that there is a degree of "fineness" in a bow shape that is optimum. Too fine, and the boat tends to pearling when landing. Too full, and it seems like the boat is pushed up and back when launching. Maybe I'll get a chance to actually test this at the HMB tourney this weekend.

Regards,
Scott