Tournaments and Trolling Motors

FWIW, I never asked for a motorized yak for the prize for GS9, and I made sure Mike Mowry knew that what he was offering for a prize couldn't even be used in the tourney.

Honestly, I don't really care who wants to do motorized yakking, but I will not be having it at GS, and I would be very hesitant to take on a guide client on a motorized yak.

To me, this is an extreme sport.  We battle the elements even on mellow days, and when we enter the ocean we are absolutely going to another level by paddling and peddling it and also sailing.  I feel that the demands of this sport do not leave room for those who would be on a one man craft and possibly not be able to one-man it back to port.

THIS IS IMPORTANT AND REALLY THE POINT WE'RE ALL DANCING AROUND HERE - it's not that using a motor makes anyone less able.  It's that using a motor indicates that there is a possibility that someone is less able, and that is a big compromise to make on the ocean or along the rivers I run, or on some lakes in some times of the year.  I do not give a shit about whether it gives someone an advantage - if someone totally able bodied came out and won a kayak fishing tournament with a motor because it wasn't prohibited in the rules, then let them be a laughing stock and outcast.  And if motors are allowed in some tournaments then I wish the best of luck to those who wish to participate in that way - they likely need the motor due to some perceived age or ability related deficit.  Get it?...  I do not at all want to go to the realm of inviting those with a potential ability deficit to my gig on the ocean along the Lost Coast - that would be dumb.  I think anyone running a tournament on anything other than very safe waters would be foolish to allow motorized yaks for the very reason I've stated here.

This is what I have been trying to say and have had to wait until it came out right.

I hope it did. 

Also, even though I think traildad comes out of left field sometimes with his topics, I like the debate and the awareness that it brings.  WTG, Ken! 

But the fact remains; kayak manufacturers are equipping kayaks with motors and it's likely to expand to many other brands and models in the future.  The poll is valid and I imagine this discussion will evolve with the evolution of the technology.  It's always up to the director but what of the prizes?  I recall a couple years ago, the main raffle prize at GS9 (I think) was a Old Town Predator with a trolling motor.  How will sponsors respond to requests of support when their prizes are not allowed to even participate in the event it's showcased?

The sponsors can always repond to request for support with their products that don't feature motors.

I have only an idea how a manufacturer sponsor decides on the prize donated.  I would imagine that it's an effective way to promote their latest and greatest products to an audience that is well targeted. 

On the advantage of having a motorized kayak; how about a delay start on them?  If the start time for a tournament is 7am, for example, stipulate that motorized kayaks have a 2 hour handicap and don't take off until 9am?  Shouldn't that offset the speed to reaching distant fishing grounds?

I would never encourage someone to utilize a motorized kayak for the ocean if it's a physical necessity in order to participate.  If someone doesn't have the skill set to human-power a kayak on the ocean, then they are at risk of becoming a liability to other kayakers who might be called to help in a rescue.  I think it would display poor judgement on their part. 

FWIW, I never asked for a motorized yak for the prize for GS9, and I made sure Mike Mowry knew that what he was offering for a prize couldn't even be used in the tourney.

Honestly, I don't really care who wants to do motorized yakking, but I will not be having it at GS, and I would be very hesitant to take on a guide client on a motorized yak.

To me, this is an extreme sport.  We battle the elements even on mellow days, and when we enter the ocean we are absolutely going to another level by paddling and peddling it and also sailing.  I feel that the demands of this sport do not leave room for those who would be on a one man craft and possibly not be able to one-man it back to port.

THIS IS IMPORTANT AND REALLY THE POINT WE'RE ALL DANCING AROUND HERE - it's not that using a motor makes anyone less able.  It's that using a motor indicates that there is a possibility that someone is less able, and that is a big compromise to make on the ocean or along the rivers I run, or on some lakes in some times of the year.  I do not give a shit about whether it gives someone an advantage - if someone totally able bodied came out and won a kayak fishing tournament with a motor because it wasn't prohibited in the rules, then let them be a laughing stock and outcast.  And if motors are allowed in some tournaments then I wish the best of luck to those who wish to participate in that way - they likely need the motor due to some perceived age or ability related deficit.  Get it?...  I do not at all want to go to the realm of inviting those with a potential ability deficit to my gig on the ocean along the Lost Coast - that would be dumb.  I think anyone running a tournament on anything other than very safe waters would be foolish to allow motorized yaks for the very reason I've stated here.

This is what I have been trying to say and have had to wait until it came out right.

I hope it did. 

Also, even though I think traildad comes out of left field sometimes with his topics, I like the debate and the awareness that it brings.  WTG, Ken!

Thank you for the kind words. Bringing up subjects that are counter culture is not all peaches and cream. As I was looking at tournament rules I couldn't find any mention about motors for GS. Did I miss it or is it an unwritten rule?

I couldn't find any mention about motors for GS. Did I miss it or is it an unwritten rule?

I thought I had it in there!  I will add to the rules this year, and it will be clear that only human-powered kayaks will be allowed. 

 I feel that the demands of this sport do not leave room for those who would be on a one man craft and possibly not be able to one-man it back to port.

        Completely agree with your decision and right to limit what can / can't be used in a tournament.    If it's man against the elements,,, how about eliminating those ama's  I see people use.   If they can't keep their kayak upright on rough seas, they shouldn't be out there.

        Completely disagree about your insinuation that  an electric motor makes a kayak " less safe" on the water.  .      If anything it's the opposite...   Seems the worry is about the advantage of speed getting to the fishing.     I'll challenge anyone here to a race back to launch area,, under any conditions when I have the advantage of my motor.

 If the motor fails,  paddle...      If the Mirage drive on a PA fails,,, someone's going to be calling for a rescue because there's no way a guy's going to be paddling that back to port under 15 knot head winds...   

 I feel that the demands of this sport do not leave room for those who would be on a one man craft and possibly not be able to one-man it back to port.

        Completely agree with your decision and right to limit what can / can't be used in a tournament.    If it's man against the elements,,, how about eliminating those ama's  I see people use.   If they can't keep their kayak upright on rough seas, they shouldn't be out there.

        Completely disagree about your insinuation that  an electric motor makes a kayak " less safe" on the water.  .      If anything it's the opposite...   Seems the worry is about the advantage of speed getting to the fishing.     I'll challenge anyone here to a race back to launch area,, under any conditions when I have the advantage of my motor.

 If the motor fails,  paddle...      If the Mirage drive on a PA fails,,, someone's going to be calling for a rescue because there's no way a guy's going to be paddling that back to port under 15 knot head winds...

I think I understand what he means. The most important safety factor by far is our brain. It doesn't matter much what gear we have if we do stupid things. If we have a "Titanic Mentality" sooner or later it will get us in trouble. So any gear we use that we allow to give us a titanic mentality is dangerous. If we add outriggers and think we can't flip we might do something dumb. If we have a trolling motor and we rely on it to get us somewhere we can't get back from under paddle power we could get in trouble. This isn't only a kayak issue. I'm sure some people go out in power boats and run into problems when critical gear fails. I think a trolling motor is safe as long as I don't let it give me a false sense of security. If we think we are unsinkable for any reason, we are on the edge of trouble.

Put a time start and end start penalty and make sure they have brought something delicious for the pot luck! 

Put a time start and end start penalty and make sure they have brought something delicious for the pot luck! 

     Best reply yet .       Spoken like a man who likes to eat !          

Lots and lots of assumptions being made and philosophical differences coming out in this thread.  The question of how to integrate (or not) the explosion of motor kayaks is interesting and now seems like a pretty good time to discuss it.  I am having a bit of trouble covering all of the things that I'm thinking on the subject and then putting it eloquently, having typed and deleted several posts, but ultimately this is going to be up to individual tournament directors going forward.  There is no sanctioning or governing body that controls tournaments and discusses what is, and is not, permissible.  It's up to the promoters of the events.  There is nothing inherently wrong or bad about motors on kayaks.  People need to take responsibility for their own actions.  We don't need to get into the business of protecting people from themselves by fashioning blanket rules about things that might be used in an unsafe manner or give someone a false sense of security.  We can preach safety until we are blue in the face, but we can do that in a world where motor kayaks co-exist with x-factors and hobie mirage drives just fine.

Who makes up the market for these motor-driven kayaks?  Because if the poll is any indication, it looks like hardly anyone in NCKA is clamoring to use these things in kayak tournaments.  I think the assumption that this market is going to explode anytime soon is false, and I have a number of reasons for that, but I’m curious to know why folks believe it’ll be huge.

Most of the US is landlocked.....bass fishing is huge.....trolling motors are a huge advantage in bass fishing.  I think the market is there.

Most of the US is landlocked.....bass fishing is huge.....trolling motors are a huge advantage in bass fishing.  I think the market is there.

The one tournament where motors are specifically allowed is a bass tournament.

I did some reading on NWKA and they seemed more accepting of motors there.

I assume the manufactures have some idea that it would be worth the investment before they proceeded.

So this market is catering to the guys who want the trolling motor benefits of a bass boat, but do not want a bass boat?  There's a big market for this in NorCal?

So this market is catering to the guys who want the trolling motor benefits of a bass boat, but do not want a bass boat?  There's a big market for this in NorCal?

There is actually a burgeoning market for this in NorCal.  The guys who fish KBS /YAB are as hardcore as the rest of us in number of fishing days and conditions.  They spend good $$$ on gear and aren't afraid to do so.  The kayak shops definitely try to target that market, as they should.  They need to pay the rent.

I wanted to add that it will mostly be people new to kayaking and mostly those moving from a power boat. Their first exposure is to a kayak that has an optional motor. They won't know anything else.