2017 AOTY Rule Suggestions - go for it

Oh, It's not fun anymore and I'm going to exercise option "B" Taking my football and going home Offended
                                                                                                                                                               

So I do have an actual rule proposal/modification here for you to discuss:

Current rule:
(Part of 3) Mouths must be completely closed. If there is light showing between the lips then the mouth is not closed. You are not allowed to stretch or pull the lips to gain extra length. If the mouth is not completely closed, the entry will be disqualified. No lip grippers or game clips or stringers can be in the mouth when picture is taken.

4. All attempts should be made to photograph submissions with mouth fully closed, meaning that no light or air gap should be visible between the top and bottom of the lips.  Competitors are not allowed to stretch or pull the lips to gain extra length. If the mouth is not fully closed, there will be an automatic deduction of 15 (10? 20) points from the submission.  Continued abuse of this rule will result in the competitor's disqualification from the competition and no refund will be issued.  The only exception for this rule is if the natural condition of the submission prevents the lips from closing fully, such as a kype or other natural deformity, and will be judged through a simple majority vote of AOTY committee members.  Sturgeon are exempted from this rule.

If you go with this, I'd make sure to define "continued abuse" as it is vague.  Do they get one more chance, 2 more chances, etc.?

Complete disqualification is harsh but maybe DQ any further fish with open mouths.

And I'm with crash on the deduction coming from the inches of the fish, not a blanket number of points that would be applied to all fish.

I thought Kayak Angling in NorCal was supposed to fun and somewhat relaxing.   

I thought Kayak Angling in NorCal was supposed to fun and somewhat relaxing. 

Sounds like someone needs a glass of white wine and a mansage. 

You guys figure out the rules and I'll play by them.  Just have them posted before the year starts.

Josh

You guys figure out the rules and I'll play by them.  Just have them posted before the year starts.

Josh

+1

Just signed up for 2016.  Looking to put my first fish on the board next weekend.  My goal this year is 1,000 points.

So I do have an actual rule proposal/modification here for you to discuss:

Current rule:
(Part of 3) Mouths must be completely closed. If there is light showing between the lips then the mouth is not closed. You are not allowed to stretch or pull the lips to gain extra length. If the mouth is not completely closed, the entry will be disqualified. No lip grippers or game clips or stringers can be in the mouth when picture is taken.

4. All attempts should be made to photograph submissions with mouth fully closed, meaning that no light or air gap should be visible between the top and bottom of the lips.  Competitors are not allowed to stretch or pull the lips to gain extra length. If the mouth is not fully closed, there will be an automatic deduction of 15 (10? 20) points from the submission.  Continued abuse of this rule will result in the competitor's disqualification from the competition and no refund will be issued.  The only exception for this rule is if the natural condition of the submission prevents the lips from closing fully, such as a kype or other natural deformity, and will be judged through a simple majority vote of AOTY committee members.  Sturgeon are exempted from this rule.

Ben, I support the highlighted portion of your proposed rule, along with the rest of the original rule.  Sometimes a kyped-out trout or salmon's mouth is impossible to fully close shut, and that should not automatically preclude it from submission.

As for being more lenient with the mouth-closed rule: I think DQ is still the way to go.  Yeah, I too hate seeing any fish DQed due to a slightly-open mouth.  But when it comes to rules, I prefer to axe out as many potential "gray areas" as possible.  Either the fish counts for points, or it doesn't.  You're proposing a point deduction for open-mouthed fish.  Here's a scenario:

Angler #1 (Caesar) and Angler #2 (Pablo) each catch a 40 inch lingcod (they both measure 40 inches if the mouths are completely closed).  Caesar tries his very best to keep the mouth of his lingcod closed, takes the photo, and releases it.  However, he doesn't notice until the end of the day that the photo he shot shows the lingcod's mouth ever-so-slightly open.  He's hit with a 20 point deduction, so his 200 point fish is now 180 points.

Meanwhile, Pablo doesn't want to bother trying to close his lingcod's mouth.  He's fine with taking the point deduction.  So he angles his lingcod so the mouth is wide open.  When he does this, his 40 inch lingcod actually tapes out to 41 inches due to the extension of the lower jaw.  Pablo is also hit with a 20 point deduction, but now his fish counts for 185 points.  So even though both fish were actually 40 inches if their mouths were closed, the point system now favors Pablo's fish over Caesar's.

See where I'm going with this?  You end up with this "gray area" that puts the AOTY committee into a tight spot.  Some may try to claim that Pablo was purposely stretching that lingcod's mouth to gain the extra inch to offset the point deduction.  But maybe the ling just plain refused to close his mouth, it was a bumpy ocean, and he could only snap one decent photo.  There's no way to know for sure one way or the other.

That being said, I'm still in support of DQing fish with open mouths.  If it's a dead fish, there's no excuse for not getting a closed-mouth picture because you have all the time in the world to do it.  Yeah, the rule makes CnR more difficult, especially if it's a really large fish on the ocean.  But consider that part of the game.  If one is that concerned with releasing that big fish, then maybe they shouldn't try getting an AOTY measurement with it.  The rule isn't perfect, but it's black-and-white and there's no "gray areas" that could potentially favor one angler over another.