Friends at NCKA events

If he pulled that knife on a cop he would be dead. No joke.
That a shame these incidents are starting to become more frequent. I agree ncka members need to take responsibility for those they bring and there needs to be follow up on this. There shouldn't be any tolerance for violence and clowns like that need to exit themselves from OUR events. Sorry that happened to you brotha but we should take a hard line on things like this before someone really gets hurt.

Amateurs. Guys like that dont stay alive long.  You're a bigger man for walking away, James.

Agreed.

Does the guy kayak fish?  Is he on the board?  How bout the 'host.'

Wanna pm me with some details?  I wasn't there and a forum Admin can only go so far.  But I'm comfortable going at least as far as "That is totally not cool bro.  and take the story from there.

and, I don't think "these incidents are starting to become more frequent." We're a chill group.

Bushy

This guy and his friend have some splainin to do.  I can't believe that it needs to be said that violence, or the threat of violence have no place at our events. 

Assault with a deadly weapon is a bit beyond "totally not cool bro".  It's a felony.  James is the victim of a serious crime.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, but expulsion from the group and report to the sheriff seems like the bare minimum here.  This goes way beyond the drunk guy at GS6 that was basically self destructing.

Who brought him Rider? Whats the deal? You cant say all this then not say who it was...

Assault with a deadly weapon is a bit beyond "totally not cool bro".  It's a felony.  James is the victim of a serious crime.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, but expulsion from the group and report to the sheriff seems like the bare minimum here.  This goes way beyond the drunk guy at GS6 that was basically self destructing.

I think your right on the spot. A warning to others I won't tolerate this if I see it. It is an assault and the guy is lucky someone didn't have a CCW. TO which I'm considering to get one. That guy is stupid as so many people are now getting CCW's . As my Pappy said "if you whip it out use it". 

One lucky SOB! I didn't make it to the event but had I, I would have been in that group and someone wouldn't have walked away. james, good on you for walking away. Report this and let's get some action (legal ) on this. Scares me what would have happened. Glad your Ok!

Assault with a deadly weapon is a bit beyond "totally not cool bro".  It's a felony.  James is the victim of a serious crime.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, but expulsion from the group and report to the sheriff seems like the bare minimum here.  This goes way beyond the drunk guy at GS6 that was basically self destructing.

^^^^^

A CCW permit holder has the right to defend himself if they have a reasonable expectation that they are faced with deadly force and can not avoid it any other way.  You did right.  If he had followed you, or you could not otherwise get away, you have to take care of yourself until law enforcement can arrive to do so for you. 

As far as defending another's life, in almost all cases, you would not have the legal right to take action with your firearm.  You personally are not threatened or in immediate threat of death.  You are, instead, to be a good witness for the police.  You are not a cop.  You are not superman. 

However, there is language in the law that states you have the right to defend innocent life.  This is usually where a parent is protecting their child or other person who could not reasonably be expected to defend themselves. 

In the situation described, if the victim had used a weapon they were legally licensed to carry, it would depend on the local DA office if they would press the use as a criminal action. 

James did the right thing, the guy was getting out of hand for a while which led to my early exit from the fire. 

But there is no room for firearms at our events regardless.  I bring my little man to these, one bad choice of where you feel like you are defending yourself and my tent won't be much good at deflecting a bullet.  And we camp to close together for this to not be a concern....

A CCW permit holder has the right to defend himself if they have a reasonable expectation that they are faced with deadly force and can not avoid it any other way.  You did right.  If he had followed you, or you could not otherwise get away, you have to take care of yourself until law enforcement can arrive to do so for you. 

As far as defending another's life, in almost all cases, you would not have the legal right to take action with your firearm.  You personally are not threatened or in immediate threat of death.  You are, instead, to be a good witness for the police.  You are not a cop.  You are not superman. 

However, there is language in the law that states you have the right to defend innocent life.  This is usually where a parent is protecting their child or other person who could not reasonably be expected to defend themselves. 

In the situation described, if the victim had used a weapon they were legally licensed to carry, it would depend on the local DA office if they would press the use as a criminal action. 

This is the approved California jury instruction on self-defense or defense of another.

505. Justifiable Homicide: Self-Defense or Defense of Another
The defendant is not guilty of (murder/ [or] manslaughter/ attempted
murder/ [or] attempted voluntary manslaughter) if (he/she) was justified
in (killing/attempting to kill) someone in (self-defense/ [or] defense of
another). The defendant acted in lawful (self-defense/ [or] defense of
another) if:
1. The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she/ [or] someone
else/ [or] <insert name or description of third party>)
was in imminent danger of being killed or suffering great bodily
injury [or was in imminent danger of being
(raped/maimed/robbed/ <insert other forcible and
atrocious crime>)];
2. The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of
deadly force was necessary to defend against that danger;
AND
3. The defendant used no more force than was reasonably
necessary to defend against that danger.
Belief in future harm is not sufficient, no matter how great or how
likely the harm is believed to be. The defendant must have believed
there was imminent danger of death or great bodily injury to (himself/
herself/ [or] someone else). Defendant’s belief must have been
reasonable and (he/she) must have acted only because of that belief. The
defendant is only entitled to use that amount of force that a reasonable
person would believe is necessary in the same situation. If the defendant
used more force than was reasonable, the [attempted] killing was not
justified.
When deciding whether the defendant’s beliefs were reasonable,
consider all the circumstances as they were known to and appeared to
the defendant and consider what a reasonable person in a similar
situation with similar knowledge would have believed. If the defendant’s
beliefs were reasonable, the danger does not need to have actually
existed.
[The defendant’s belief that (he/she/ [or] someone else) was threatened
may be reasonable even if (he/she) relied on information that was not
true. However, the defendant must actually and reasonably have
believed that the information was true.]
[If you find that <insert name of decedent/victim>
threatened or harmed the defendant [or others] in the past, you may
consider that information in deciding whether the defendant’s conduct
and beliefs were reasonable.]
[If you find that the defendant knew that <insert name of
decedent/victim> had threatened or harmed others in the past, you may
consider that information in deciding whether the defendant’s conduct
and beliefs were reasonable.]
[Someone who has been threatened or harmed by a person in the past,
is justified in acting more quickly or taking greater self-defense
measures against that person.]
[If you find that the defendant received a threat from someone else that
(he/she) reasonably associated with <insert name of
decedent/victim>, you may consider that threat in deciding whether the
defendant was justified in acting in (self-defense/ [or] defense of
another).]
[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his
or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably
necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily
injury/ <insert forcible and atrocious crime>) has passed.
This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]
[Great bodily injury means significant or substantial physical injury. It is
an injury that is greater than minor or moderate harm.]
The People have the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that
the [attempted] killing was not justified. If the People have not met this
burden, you must find the defendant not guilty of (murder/ [or]
manslaughter/ attempted murder/ [or] attempted voluntary
manslaughter).

No gun needed I don't drink and can handle myself well. Diffuse situation, and call cops is always best. Detain only if necessary. Knives are stupid against someone with any training at all. Make the call, Even now, so He or one of us doesn't get hurt. Could have ended ugly. Will if stuff like this keeps happening. Grudge held till next event? Serious stuff here, way past fist to cuffs scuffle.

Any differences between my post and the quote on defense and self-defense is due to the concealed aspect of the weapon.  If you are carrying a concealed weapon without license to do so, then you were a criminal before the attack upon you and you are likely to be held accountable for that.

I would strenuously advise that no one carries concealed unless they are fully in compliance with the law to do so. 

You can not carry your CCW if you are drinking alcohol.  So, sitting around a campfire with your buds and having a drink or two means you better not have the weapon on you at that time. 

What I provided is the CCW permit laws.  It's what the training class covers, it's what the interviewing detective will question you about, and it is what you sign when you are issued a CCW permit.  At least in El Dorado County.

Any differences between this and the quote on defense and self-defense is due to the concealed aspect of the weapon.  If you are carrying a concealed weapon without license to do so, then you were a criminal before the attack upon you. 

I would strenuously advise that no one carries concealed unless they are fully in compliance with the law to do so. 

Oh, one more thing that the CCW permit stipulates you can not carry your CCW if you are drinking alcohol.  So, sitting around a campfire with your buds and having a drink or two means you better not have the weapon on you at that time.

What about the fact that a campsite (your campsite) is considered an extension of your home?

-Allen