Who's frying their bird on thursday?

I just fried one yesterday at work.  22# bird.  3 minutes per pound.  Injected with marinade.  Water in the pot measure technique.  350 degrees.  Who cares about high smoke point oil when you're regulating the temp.  I  used peanut/soy combo oil.  Do not overcook as it will dry fast.  Check the breast for 160 degrees and the thigh for 170 ... or something like that.  Enjoy!

FRY FRY FRY!

-Allen

Yeah, 350-375 is low enough to not worry about the smoke point too much.

ChuckE the fry master uses soy so I don't worry about using it.

Alton Brown advises to take the turykey out when the breast reaches 151 degrees and let it finish to 161 degrees during the rest.  My bird is 13 pounds so it should take around 45 minutes.

MolBasser

Alton Brown advises to take the turykey out when the breast reaches 151 degrees and let it finish to 161 degrees during the rest.

Yes, I read that too.  Sounds like good adivse.  We started late so didn't have the luxury of a rest period.  Overcooked by ~10 degrees as well.  Still turned out great although the fringes were dry.

-Allen

I can't figure out why many of you want to salt your bird before cooking it.

Erik this is the way is was explained to me. Osmosis

The chemistry behind brining is actually pretty simple. Meat already contains salt water. By immersing meats into a liquid with a higher concentration of salt, the brine is absorbed into the meat. Any flavoring added to the brine will be carried into the meat with the saltwater mixture.
Because the meat is now loaded with extra moisture it will stay that way while it cooks.

OK, I got interested in this conversation last night and I consulted the food chemistry bible.  If you are interested at all about how cooking works and the chemistry behind pretty much anything from boiling an egg to smoking meat, this is the book to consult:

"On Food and Cooking, the Science and Lore of the Kitchen" by Harold McGee.

Now, that said, my initial thoughts were that there was a trade off in brining.  You get salt and spices into the meat because thing move down their concentration gradient.  Meat is low salt, brine is high salt thus the salt moves into the meat.  However, since the brine is high salt, water will want to move out of the meat to equilibrate the concentration of salt (or any other molecule of high concentration).  You can see this effect in the lab very easily.  If you fill a bag that is porous to water but not to protein with a very high concentration of protein and put that bag in a big pot of water the bag will swell as water moves into the bag attempting to even out the concentration of the protein.

This made me think that brining would dry out the meat, but my thoughts were that this only really happen at the surface of the meat.  Thus.....Read the bible, and here is what He has to say:

"Brining has two initial effects.  First, salt disrupts the structure of the muscle filaments.  A 3% salt sollution .... dissolves parts of the protein structure that supports the contracting fillaments, and a 5.5% solution .... partly dissolves the filaments themselves.  Second, the interactions of salt and proteins result in a greater water-holding capacity in the muscle cells, which then absorb water from the brine.  (the inward movement of tsalt and water and disruptions of the muscle filaments into the meat also increase its absorption of aromatic molecules from any herbs and spices in the brine.)  The meat's weight increases by 10% or more."

So, this complex system overrides the simplified concentration gradient that I was thinking about.  Over long periods of time after the effects of salt on the proteins, I would assume that osmosis would take over.  I suspect this is why brining times are relatively short.  Hams will begin to dehydrate as they are cured with salt but that is over a very long period of time.

It is initially counter intuitive, and I still wish he gave a more scientific analysis of the protein denaturation, but he has to make it lay enough for people to want to buy his book.

MolBasser

All,

I finally got the OK from the wife to deep fry my turkey this year!  Stoke!!!

Anyone else frying their bird?  Tips?  Recipes?

I am gonna follow the Alton Brown recipe and brine it overnight before frying.  I'm probably gonna be cheap and fry in Soy oil instead of peanut.......  I just can't stomach paying 30 bucks for oil......

MolBasser

There was a news show that showed how people were burning down their houses with this method. If any hot oil boils over, a very nasty fire can happen. Even people who did it outside, but too close to the house, burned their house down. Some of these things shot flames ten feet in the air! To do it safely, there needs to be a lot of empty space above the oil so nothing spills over the top of the cooking pot.

These shows are all fear mongering.

They usually dump in a frozen turkey to maximise the horror effect of boiling over oil igniting.

All it takes is a modicum of common sense and you will be fine.

I'm quite comfortable around lots of hot oil and know what I am doing so it will be smooth.

MolBasser

Mol... thanks for the excerpt on brining. 

My initial thought, based on my understanding of concentration gradients, was that brining in liquid brine may not result in much net dehydration... but rather that a dry salt rub would result in dehydration of the bird (that's mostly what I was barking about).  Seems that, in fact, liquid brine done correctly can increase the liquid holding capacity.. very cool. 

I still wonder about salt-based rubs... I still think those will cause net dehydration... not sure the extent of it though.

Good to hear the quasi-technical explanation of it anyway.

I don't think there is any debate about dry brining (salt rub) drawing out moisture.

I think the thing I was suprised about in wet brining was the protein denaturation increasing moisture capacity.

I highly recommend that book to anyone that is remotely curious about what happens when you are in the kitchen.

MolBasser

All I can tell you is that a wet brined bird is damn tasty.

We'll find out soon as my oil is heating up right now!

The wife is going out of town for a dog show so we are doing our thanksgiving tonight (I get turkey at the folks place tomorrow too....!).

As I have said many times:

Fry it! Fry it! Fry it!!

MolBasser

Thanks Mike... I'll let you know how I do. 

I might have to tag along with you on the river some time this winter.  I hit it several times a few years ago and never produced anything.  Need to learn from a pro.

EK

Bird is done and eaten.

Lessons learned:

Brine works.....Brine for less time (I went almost a full 24 hours). the bird was pretty salty.

USE YOUR DIDDLY DANG THERMOMETER!!!

I cooked the bird (13#) for 45 minutes at around 375.  The breast was 170 when I pulled it out.  This is too hot as it will continue cooking a little bit.  Dangit.  Alton Brown says to take the temp at 30 minutes and I should have.  I probably would keep the oil closer to 350 next time also.

Wife liked it though, so I should be able to keep doing it.  I definately overbrined the bird though.

Oh, and a little side note, the insertion of the turkey in the oil was no big deal at all.  There were like 3 more stories about houses burning down with fried turkeys on the news last night.  Totally no big deal.

It is pretty cool to see 4 gallons of oil at a roiling burble though!

MolBasser

Mol I took a cooking class with John Ash and he said that he only brined food when cooking with a dry heat method of cooking. Frying or Braising doesn't really need it as you are cooking it in liquid. He suggested injecting flavoring when frying. I didn't realize EB's recipe included brining. Maybe we can try it again at the next tourney sounds pretty cool.