Comments About the Abalone Survey

How about, NO GIFTING? 

And a two-tier licensing system:

Option 1: You get an annual limit of 18.......3 per day, 3 in possession for licensed folks with valid ab tags, tags on abs must match license.

Or you get an annual limit of 6, 3 per day, may have all 6 in possession.  End of story till next year.  That'll take care of all the but I go on camping trips folks.     

What interesting to me thus far is that the replies, most given, and I am not implying here like the comments given are right, wrong or not possible and so forth, but a lot of the comments received here are outside of the scoping of the survey questions. And by all means folks I don't think the survey questions were or are the cats meow by any stretch either.

Just gave the post a second read. Darn good comments !

I also gave extensive comments on how we need education for those who would engage in the sport.  At this point there is very little if any required knowledge of the animal and its vulnerabilities.  Those of us who revere the things we pursue do have a strong knowledge base, and many of us also place a high priority on honor in the sport including respect for the animals, the habitat, and fellow sportsmen.  But many who are engaged in harvest do not have a desire to honor anything.  If we don't start a cultural movement which puts pressure on people to be honorable sportsmen then I'd give the abalone fishery and most other fisheries a few decades before it's all gone.  Look what's happened in the past few decades:  limit of 10, no annual limit; limit of 7, no annual limit; limit of 5, no annual limit; limit of 4, no annual limit; limit of 4, annual limit of 100; limit of 4, annual limit 24; limit of 3, annual limit of 24; and now we're at limit of 3, annual limit of 18.  If I got any of the later part wrong it's because I stopped paying attention a long time ago - it's too disappointing to listen to all of the complaining, and I haven't come anywhere near filling a card in many years, if ever.  Yes, when I was younger I took more, and I was a trophy hunter at one point too.  But I was the type who found four tens on one rock and took them one at a time over a few years.  My Dad taught me why it's foolish to harvest more just because you can, and I'm damn glad for that.

AND, there is a now a new contingent of super obsessed trophy hunters who believe the big abs need to be culled out because they're not as productive as younger spawners.  I see that as ludicrous and greedy.

Sorry, I'm getting too worked up about this and need to stop here.   

What's the trend been in total annual take?  Individual limits don't tell the whole story ...

-Allen

I filled out the survey.  To keep the fishery around I can see making changes to size limits season. Don't really like the idea because regs really get changed back even if fishery were to improve. Also as someone else had mentioned.  But I Definently not ok with spending 100s of dollars per season on it. Just my thoughts.

Since its getting so complicated I say screw it, just ban ab harvesting period..cause the poachers will always be poaching no matter what laws, grey line, fine print and so on gets put into place. And when abs are banned then the wardens will have more time to enforce and add more rules to the hunters and fishermans.ive never ate abalone from a restaurant but since I dont have to drive and spend money for gas, food etc along highway one anymore I guess I can afford it.most of the people I know that still picks/dive for abs gets maybe three trips in.
All these new rules and regulations only get the average weekend warrior that probably never fill out their limit.
We bend over backwards to accept accommodate people in every other aspects but now you gotta give a kidney to go ab diving.

I also gave extensive comments on how we need education for those who would engage in the sport. At this point there is very little if any required knowledge of the animal and its vulnerabilities.  Those of us who revere the things we pursue do have a strong knowledge base, and many of us also place a high priority on honor in the sport including respect for the animals, the habitat, and fellow sportsmen.  But many who are engaged in harvest do not have a desire to honor anything.  If we don't start a cultural movement which puts pressure on people to be honorable sportsmen then I'd give the abalone fishery and most other fisheries a few decades before it's all gone.  Look what's happened in the past few decades:  limit of 10, no annual limit; limit of 7, no annual limit; limit of 5, no annual limit; limit of 4, no annual limit; limit of 4, annual limit of 100; limit of 4, annual limit 24; limit of 3, annual limit of 24; and now we're at limit of 3, annual limit of 18.  If I got any of the later part wrong it's because I stopped paying attention a long time ago - it's too disappointing to listen to all of the complaining, and I haven't come anywhere near filling a card in many years, if ever.  Yes, when I was younger I took more, and I was a trophy hunter at one point too.  But I was the type who found four tens on one rock and took them one at a time over a few years.  My Dad taught me why it's foolish to harvest more just because you can, and I'm damn glad for that.

AND, there is a now a new contingent of super obsessed trophy hunters who believe the big abs need to be culled out because they're not as productive as younger spawners.  I see that as ludicrous and greedy.

Sorry, I'm getting too worked up about this and need to stop here.   

Good response!

Okay for what is worth and I can be quoted, this is what I said at the MRC meeting about the survey. "Some of you here know (personal communication via email with the abalone manager and his boss, the DFW marine manger and the exe. dir. for the fish & commission weeks ahead of the MRC meeting) I said I could live with the survey without any changes to it. How could I make that statement, well because I knew what I was going to say when this day came. The survey was a test, a test to measure the willingness of the constituency to do things different than they are use too and accustomed too. How good of a measurement of that test, yet to be seen. What we must do is design a sustainable fishery first. Just because the constituency indicates in groupings reply's of what they want that does not mean we go off and design a fishery on that. We must design a sustainable fishery most importantly and if we can incorporate some of the desires from the survey in doing so, then okay."

Will what I said land as a item of importance in the end game for this FMP process, our guess is as good as mime, maybe this gives hope again LoletaEric.

"What's the trend been in total annual take?  Individual limits don't tell the whole story ...

-Allen" As of right now I do not know. Have not been been chasing landing trims as of late per say. Been more focused on framing an FMP. But as you know less fishermen in the fishery, less landings. Might want to place a place marker here on that so it does not become skewed later. A better understanding would be the CPUE of it all. One improvement I would like to see added to the abalone report, a Y or N box to indicate if ones intent was to land a daily bag limit per that outing, and another improvement might be to record the size of the abalone landed on the card.

Death to poachers.
that will solve a lot of problems. 

So DFW was only interested in public willingness to accept change and not in the actual responses?  That's a new low if true.

DFG does publish both CPUE and total catch data.  What are your thoughts on that?

-Allen

Thoughts on CPUE. Well currently the recreational CPUE that is used for abalone is not the same as CPUE that is used most often in commercial fishery TAC decision trees and the assessment of stock indicator trends.

Our recreational abalone CPUE defined per the ARMP is, without referencing the ARMP CPUE, is the distance, time and the number of abalone retained from an abalone landing entry site. One thing I do not like about the recreational abalone CPUE is it assumes for each outing of an abalone fisherman be it a diver or a rock picker is they desire a full bag limit. Often now a days and some before the resent abalone regulation reductions not every abalone fisherman goal was to land the daily bag limit. Solution: add the Y or N box that if the intent was to land a bag limit or not. If honesty were done in checking a Y or N Box was done by constituents that simple collection of data would greatly improve our understanding of what may be happening to the stocks status of abalone from the landing site perspective. Another improvement is recording the size of abalone landed as well. Data, data, data. 

I like your idea about the Y/N for "were you targeting a limit" because there has to be lots of people like me who rarely if ever intend to take a limit (or even two). 

The ability to report size taken also seems like great data to gather.

I like your idea about the Y/N for "were you targeting a limit" because there has to be lots of people like me who rarely if ever intend to take a limit (or even two). 

The ability to report size taken also seems like great data to gather.

Thanks for the positive indication for adding the Y/N box.

Going to jump forward somewhat before someone asks what do I think about spawning potential ratio (SPR) and minimum viable population. Either one, either way, or whichever one is used, both in engineered operating system (fishery) have a shutdown lockout trip once breached. In any operating system (fishery) should the trends or indications be trending downward and or other indications are present that if not, acted upon, will lead to a shutdown trip (closure) hey one has to back off the basis buttons, whatever they may be in order the keep the trip from occurring.

However, the way I understand SPR if, or when it is used for abalone, SPR does not operate with the rigidity that MVP is fixed to. With a SPR fishery one can set the SPR at a desired percentage of given stock status. Our current MVP at the site level is set to .2,500 abs/ habitat area. From everything I have read, MVP can be as low as 70 abalone per habitat area to 1,000 abalone per habitat area. After some study of the abalone fishery in Australia, both its commercial and recreational and the geographical distance of the thousands of miles of suitable abalone habitat, there people population interactions and what is the practiced management is, I ponder if how they do it down under is good for California.

However, yep another however, if ones asks how could Ft. Ross be opened tomorrow if the desire were to do so, SPR could be that tool to do so. Why, because SPR lower limit thresholds can a starting point level to measure against which can be set to the desires of what one wants it to be, then allow fishery pressure, measure the fishery pressure, measure (assess) the stock while fishing is allowed, then evaluate.
Be careful of what you ask for, you might just get it.                   

I just read the ausie regs for the giggles. There is a zone that is open 1st Sunday of the month for a five month stretch, from 7am-8am only.

So there's that.