Downrigger questions for the pros

Why thicker? The whole idea (other than safety of course) is to go as thin as possible for less drag. I think 80-lb will be fine with a rubber snubber. If not, I guess I'll find out the hard way.

I'm putting the whole 150 yard apool of PP on there. That way I can cut 10 feet or so off the end every few trips and keep it strong.

I'm sure 80 will work fine, but braid isn't know for impact resistance is why I went higher.  No matter what, anything thinner than the cable is an improvement.  The difference between diameters on 80lb and 150lb isn't that much either.  I went with what I considered a good test,  I did a drop test of 80lb braid at 4ft with 3.5ft of line on my 4lb weight, and it snapped.  Upped it to 150 and it did not.  To date, have not lost any weights, though there has been some fraying on the line, so I cut off the first 50ft recently, and seems good as new! 

Alex, Ive been using Cabelas spectra fiber Depth Trac 135# downrigger line for a little over a year now. I picked it up for $20 I think or cheaper when it was on sale. Easy to cut and way better than steel cable and also cheaper than power pro braid.

I'm sure 80 will work fine, but braid isn't know for impact resistance is why I went higher.  No matter what, anything thinner than the cable is an improvement.  The difference between diameters on 80lb and 150lb isn't that much either.  I went with what I considered a good test,  I did a drop test of 80lb braid at 4ft with 3.5ft of line on my 4lb weight, and it snapped.  Upped it to 150 and it did not.  To date, have not lost any weights, though there has been some fraying on the line, so I cut off the first 50ft recently, and seems good as new!

Good stuff. Did you have a rubber snubber on the end when you did that test? Also, keep in mind the impact will be lessened when the DR ball is under water versus in the air. I'll give the drop test a try with my snubber and 80 lb braid when I get a chance.

I'm sure 150 lb is still a big improvement over cable in terms of safety and drag.

No, haven't tried a snubber.  But that sounds like a great idea!  Will give it a shot 

Not that I've tried it in the water yet, but the rubber snubber makes a nice "handle" for your weight. Grabbing braided line sucks...

I got my downrigger set up after salmon season had already ended this year. I can't speak from personal experience on this one, but I know that people do troll for salmon below 100 feet. For example, Nangusdog from NWKA says he fishes 100-120 feet for winter blackmouth (chinook) with a Scotty Depthmaster. They do tend to troll a little slower up in the Puget sound, but this just shows what's possible.


http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=12067.0

In reality, most of my trolling will be in the 20-75 foot range. The salmon tend to hang out in water less than 100 feet along the Marin coast, so that's the MAX I might ever want to go in that area. Down at Moss Landing or Monterey I might try deeper, but I don't make it down there very often.

As for the drag, I'm not terribly worried about it. I have no problem dragging a 3-lb ball around for 8 hours. The only thing that stops me is wetsuit chaffing, but that'll be a thing of the past once I buy a drysuit. Maybe I'll see this differently once I've tried it...

You can use rashguard tops and bottoms under your wetsuit to prevent chafing.  Mine work great.

I can't see any reason to go beyond 50 pound braid on a kayak. It seems to me there is a minimal risk of breaking off unless you're regularly dragging the ball over rocks, and if you're doing that, it might be a good thing to break off, rather than hang up...

As soon as I hook a fish I hit the remote control button on my vest and the ball comes up automatically.

We cant all be as cool as you Mike! 

Thanks Al.
But it's way less about being cool and way more about having blown out shoulders.

I can't see any reason to go beyond 50 pound braid on a kayak. It seems to me there is a minimal risk of breaking off unless you're regularly dragging the ball over rocks, and if you're doing that, it might be a good thing to break off, rather than hang up..

It may seem like overkill, but it works for me and I'm happy with it. Occasionally the line gets wrapped up during deployment, and the thinner lines (25-40) have cut me pretty good. I have my pfd knife ready to go and cut the line if need be.  I have certainly snagged up a few times, but I leave the drag a little loose and it pulls line instead of flipping me over.

As soon as I hook a fish I hit the remote control button on my vest and the ball comes up automatically.

We cant all be as cool as you Mike! 

Thanks Al.
But it's way less about being cool and way more about having blown out shoulders.

Well, I'd love to have one for the fun of it!  and LOOK as cool as you using it 

Are you guys using braid for your main line when fishing downriggers?

Reading around on the web it seems like there's about a 50/50 split of people who swear by braid+mono top shot for salmon and those who prefer straight mono.

I can definitely see pros and cons with both:

- Mono has more stretch (holds tension on barbless hooks), provides shock absorption.

- Braid is thinner (gets deeper with less blowback)

- Braid apparently doesn't work very well with line releases, but most braid users seem to leave a long enough top shot so it can be clipped into the release.

Maybe you the best option is to run braid with a long (say, 30-40 foot?) top shot of mono. This would put about half of the mono horizontal in the water behind the release, and only about 15 feet or so of it vertical (contributing to blowback). I'd also have a 30-40 foot mono "shock absorber" to handle any last minute thrashing when the fish is beside my boat.

Thoughts?

I use braid all the way down to my flasher.  It holds fine in my Scotty clips.  In fact I'd say over 50% of the time, I have to yank to get the line to release from the clips.   I use 65lbs powerpro. 

Definitely use a rubber snubber.  Easier to grab and you will break the ball off less.  Those promoting anything under 50lbs braid for the downrigger line, i'd be interested to know if you ever have broken a line when letting go ( I use 8 lbs) of the ball .  Braid is strong in so many ways.  It is also very weak in others.  Terrible abrasion resistance but the weakness I think many are unfamiliar about is the what I all the "shock" resistance.  I do not use braid less than 50lbs becasue I have found that on anything less, braid snaps much too easily when given a sudden jerk...like dropping an 8lbs downriger weight without a snubber.   I need to replicate the test, but once I tied 20pound mono to 30pound braid.  Attached the line to the back of my car and yanked.  Braid broke first every time.  Pulled slowly, the mono broke. 

This is only a theory of mine, but the traditional long rod with a big bend to take up slack is a pure myth from a kayak...especially when it comes to braid.  How much line does that big bend in the rod actually pick up?  2 maybe 3ft max?  Braid eliminates at least that much "bow" in my line. I prefer a stouter faster action rod in the 6 to 7 ft length so if the hook isn't set by the pull on the clip, coming tight to a stiff rod with braid surely will.   I know its a different game with barbless, but long soft rods only serve to make it harder for me to land the fish.  Besides, the kayak already gives me enough "give" that I rarely lose a fish due to slack line issues.

Currently everything I use personally from my kayak is loaded with braid.  Absolutely hated it at first but as I have gained more experience with it, I use braid for 99% of my kayak application.  From 12 inch trout to 100 pound halibut.  Having said that, except for halibut, 95% of my guest rods are set up with mono because it is MUCH more forgiving and frankly safer to use than braid. 

...  Terrible abrasion resistance but the weakness I think many are unfamiliar about is the what I all the "shock" resistance.  I do not use braid less than 50lbs becasue I have found that on anything less, braid snaps much too easily when given a sudden jerk...like dropping an 8lbs downriger weight without a snubber.

+1

I use 150# braid with the DR and a 6-8# ball. I wouldn't want to risk losing my gear on anything less than 80# if I were to switch again. When I crab snare, I'll use either a mono or 80# braid top shot otherwise the main 40# braid line will snap on the first cast.

I have 40-50# straight braid on the main line and a salmon bungee to add shock absorption (plus a noodle rod as someone described it lol). Depending on the thickness of the braid, try twisting it when adding it to the line clip which will make it more difficult to release. Just watch out when there are shakers around and you might end up dragging around one for a bit because the clip didn't release. 

I'm fairly new to using a downrigger from the yak, so you probably want to listen to others on here who clearly have a lot more experience. But when trolling for salmon, I used a 4 pound ball, attached via 30# braid, no snubber and didn't have any issues. Of course, breaking off the ball would ruin your day, so maybe it makes sense to use heavier braid. However, you might end up needing a heavier ball due to more blowback from the heavier line, so it could be something of a catch-22.

Even when not using the DR, I virtually always troll, and for any kind of trolling, I'm a huge fan of braid. I made the switch last year, and I'll never go back to mono. With braid, I always seem to have a pretty good feel for what's going on down there. In comparison, mono is like fishing with a giant rubber band.

Specifically, I use 30# Sufix 832. Call me crazy (you won't be the first), but I swear that this stuff produces noticeably less drag than PowerPro. I attribute it to the fact that Sufix 832 has a smooth, almost slippery feel when wet, whereas PowerPro has a sawtooth feel.

For salmon fishing, I had the best luck with an FBR tied to my braid (i.e., no mono topshot), with no flasher or dodger. I could run that setup down 80' or more and it was still close enough to vertical that I could still see it on my FF. Of course, I'm not exactly a speed demon when trolling---more like an old lady out for a Sunday afternoon stroll...

This is only a theory of mine, but the traditional long rod with a big bend to take up slack is a pure myth from a kayak...especially when it comes to braid.  How much line does that big bend in the rod actually pick up?  2 maybe 3ft max?  Braid eliminates at least that much "bow" in my line. I prefer a stouter faster action rod in the 6 to 7 ft length so if the hook isn't set by the pull on the clip, coming tight to a stiff rod with braid surely will.   I know its a different game with barbless, but long soft rods only serve to make it harder for me to land the fish.  Besides, the kayak already gives me enough "give" that I rarely lose a fish due to slack line issues.

This is really interesting. I've been using a fairly stiff rod (8' length) and was thinking that I should get a more traditional salmon rod. It seems like there might be some benefit to a more limber rod when the salmon gets closer to the boat and it starts berserking. But, I hadn't thought about the initial hookup issue.

Anyways, great info---thanks for posting.