Cal Fire Inmate Firefighters

In the 10 years I worked as a Fire Fighter in CZU I was always glad to see the crew bus pull up.  Those guys do all the grunt work without complaint.  Many times on back country rescues where we were deep in the canyons, two 4 man engine crews trying to man a litter to carry some one out and work the rope rescue lines you are so happy to see 16 fresh bodies show up to man the haul lines and for that 4 mile carry out.

They dig dirt, they cut down brush, they haul hose in and afterward go haul in back out. they cut firebreaks all winter in the rain to create defensible mountain communities, they do habitat restoration work. They are not on engines, but the work they do frees up those engine crews to be available for what ever eenmergcies they are needed at
Real easy for you folks who aren't out there to second guess what really goes on on a wildland incident

they are the guys in orange, behind them in yellow is the Alma Helitack Crew (our best)

I'll mirror everyone else's post by saying they are low-level offenders and they work extraordinary hard on the fireline.  Every one of them I've spoken to say fighting fires is far better than prison and it's the only time in their lives they've done something productive.  I think that sense of contributing is life-changing for them.  Cal Fire has even hired some of them after they are released.

To the OP; it is not forced labor.  The inmates apply to be on these crews and can quit at any time.

To Ski-Pro;
1. are they taking jobs away from guys who have been law abiding citizens?  No, not in my opinion.  Hiring folks to do the same work is cost prohibitive and I doubt folks would be too motivated for a hand line construction job.  Back-breaking dirty work.  The program deploys around 4400 inmates and California could never afford to employ that number of firefighters, even at minimum wage.  I view them as adjunct to the firefighters on the hot sections of the fires.

2. the safety of all our regular firefighters who are gonna be in contact with these criminals as well as other volunteers and workers; kitchen/showers/toilets/ etc are all in and around these criminals.  They are very closely monitored.  Both by Cal Fire employees and the corrections officers.  They also monitor each other because if 1 guy messes up, the entire crew suffers.  I've rubbed elbows with these guy thousands of times and never once felt less than safe.  They have A LOT to lose if they get out of line.

3. that regular civilians call firefighters heros; are these prisoners heros too? Yes and No.  They are typically following behind the professional Firefighters and are given no decision-making authority.  They are not normally placed around homes for structure defense.  I doubt the general public would call them heroes but I've seen the work they are able to accomplish and they are silent heroes to me.

4. Does this experience give them a leg up when applying for firefighting positions when they get out and is that fair to law abiding applicants?  No.  If given 2 candidates of equal qualifications, the inmate would take second place simply because of his background.

I may sound like I'm singing their praises but they are not sitting in a cell soaking up the public's dollars like most inmates.  They are out re-paying their debt with sweat and blisters.  A lot of times they are on the fires for the longest amount of time so that the professionals can be freed up to handle new incidents.  Even in the winter time when no fires are occurring they are cutting brush and burning piles and working everyday.

I'm glad when they show up and I think it is a very worthwhile and productive program.

Thank you for stepping up and putting the facts out there.  Sadly too many people only see them as convicts and nothing else.  They work their butts off and it is all voluntary.

Forced labor statement made me laugh though.   

I'll mirror everyone else's post by saying they are low-level offenders and they work extraordinary hard on the fireline.  Every one of them I've spoken to say fighting fires is far better than prison and it's the only time in their lives they've done something productive.  I think that sense of contributing is life-changing for them.  Cal Fire has even hired some of them after they are released.

To the OP; it is not forced labor.  The inmates apply to be on these crews and can quit at any time.

To Ski-Pro;
1. are they taking jobs away from guys who have been law abiding citizens?  No, not in my opinion.  Hiring folks to do the same work is cost prohibitive and I doubt folks would be too motivated for a hand line construction job.  Back-breaking dirty work.  The program deploys around 4400 inmates and California could never afford to employ that number of firefighters, even at minimum wage.  I view them as adjunct to the firefighters on the hot sections of the fires.

2. the safety of all our regular firefighters who are gonna be in contact with these criminals as well as other volunteers and workers; kitchen/showers/toilets/ etc are all in and around these criminals.  They are very closely monitored.  Both by Cal Fire employees and the corrections officers.  They also monitor each other because if 1 guy messes up, the entire crew suffers.  I've rubbed elbows with these guy thousands of times and never once felt less than safe.  They have A LOT to lose if they get out of line.

3. that regular civilians call firefighters heros; are these prisoners heros too? Yes and No.  They are typically following behind the professional Firefighters and are given no decision-making authority.  They are not normally placed around homes for structure defense.  I doubt the general public would call them heroes but I've seen the work they are able to accomplish and they are silent heroes to me.

4. Does this experience give them a leg up when applying for firefighting positions when they get out and is that fair to law abiding applicants?  No.  If given 2 candidates of equal qualifications, the inmate would take second place simply because of his background.

I may sound like I'm singing their praises but they are not sitting in a cell soaking up the public's dollars like most inmates.  They are out re-paying their debt with sweat and blisters.  A lot of times they are on the fires for the longest amount of time so that the professionals can be freed up to handle new incidents.  Even in the winter time when no fires are occurring they are cutting brush and burning piles and working everyday.

I'm glad when they show up and I think it is a very worthwhile and productive program.

Saw, I'll have to disagree with your opinion that there are not people willing to do the kind of work that the inmates do.  How do you explain the private companies that provide crews for fire suppression and fuels reduction?  One big issue is the fact that private enterprise has to compete with the government.  It often appears that government sources are less expensive than private resources, but what is the true cost of government resources when you include all the hidden cost such as housing, equipment, maintenance, etc.?  All of these cost are upfront in the private sector.

You have to see it for yourself. You cannot motivate someone to do the kind of work they do, for the hours they do, with the kind of pace at which they work. I'm sure someone might think that there are people who would love to have their job even if it were at minimum wage. Like I said, after seeing these guys work, in the conditions they do, at the pace they do, for as long as they do, you will never be able to find someone else that can match their work for what a civilian would be paid for low skill manual labor like them. The people willing to do ConCrew work would quit and find an easier way to earn a wage worthy of unskilled labor. Because believe me, anything is easier than what they do. You have to see it to believe it.

Thanks for taking the time to address my concerns, Saw.  That was really great!  And to all the professional firefighters, thanks too for your inputs. 

I guess I'm prejudiced because of my own personal experience as a victim of a 'non violent offense'.  I wonder how many other victims of crimes would also see this as a way to avoid the full sentence of their judgement.  A drunk driver kills a child and it's 5 years.  He can rot in his cell for all I care.  Under this program he serves a little more than a year and a half.  In the linked story, it's a crack dealer.  The drugs ends up in kids hands, lives are destroyed.  And it was his second time in prison for dealing Meth.  It doesn't fit the crime seeing as the prisoners themselves describe it as the easier of the two; in a cell or on a fire line.  I would not feel as hard against this if they were to hold to their original sentence and not get an early release.  I would bet just as many would still volunteer.  Why give them an early release?  I don't get that part of the program at all. 

I am glad to hear this program doesn't put the rest of those out there at risk. 

They are usually low risk offenders that get to work outside the prison walls, stuff like child support and what not, I have worked next to many CDC guys over the years even had my own crew working for me at the airshows. I spent four years in Salinas Valley prison wiring there mental health facility and had A crew working for me as laborers. The ones behind the fence are the ones you need to worrie about. Once in A great while you will get one that is crazy as bat shit, but not very often...

They let you out for good behavior after 4 years?
Even have the same hairdo!

Thanks for taking the time to address my concerns, Saw.  That was really great!  And to all the professional firefighters, thanks too for your inputs. 

I guess I'm prejudiced because of my own personal experience as a victim of a 'non violent offense'.  I wonder how many other victims of crimes would also see this as a way to avoid the full sentence of their judgement.  A drunk driver kills a child and it's 5 years.  He can rot in his cell for all I care.  Under this program he serves a little more than a year and a half.  In the linked story, it's a crack dealer.  The drugs ends up in kids hands, lives are destroyed.  And it was his second time in prison for dealing Meth.  It doesn't fit the crime seeing as the prisoners themselves describe it as the easier of the two; in a cell or on a fire line.  I would not feel as hard against this if they were to hold to their original sentence and not get an early release.  I would bet just as many would still volunteer.  Why give them an early release?  I don't get that part of the program at all. 

I am glad to hear this program doesn't put the rest of those out there at risk.

No problem. 

Sorry to hear you were a victim 

They do get an early release, I think as much as 2 for 1.   I don't work for Cal Fire so I'm only speaking for the work I've witness them perform.  I'm sure the program has flaws but for them to work as hard as they do just to shave a month or 2 off their sentence tells me they REALLY do not want to return to jail.  Which is a good thing.  They are normally near the end of their sentence when they become eligible for the program.

Saw, I'll have to disagree with your opinion that there are not people willing to do the kind of work that the inmates do.  How do you explain the private companies that provide crews for fire suppression and fuels reduction?  One big issue is the fact that private enterprise has to compete with the government.  It often appears that government sources are less expensive than private resources, but what is the true cost of government resources when you include all the hidden cost such as housing, equipment, maintenance, etc.?  All of these cost are upfront in the private sector.

I was afraid that sentence might rub the wrong way.  I agree there are people wanting to work and I should not have wrote such a general statement. 

I don't work for Cal Fire so I don't know all the politics involved or the cost analysis for the items you stated.  I do know using inmates for work that the private sector could has been an issue. 

The private companies that provide fire suppression and fuels management are contract workers and pay their employees much better than the inmates are paid.  That said, I would not be able to give you a solid cost comparison but it seems like a good deal since the state has not cut the program, even with the budget crisis.  It would be worth researching

Having been a paid Paramedic the ones that steal jobs are the people who want a adreline rush and volunteer on weekends to get their ricky rescue jollies by making the big red truck go woo-woo.  Hated them SOB's when I worked in South Carolina.  Most  just wanted to drive fast and cut the clothes of every woman who was in a car accident. No proffesionalism.  Made us look bad with the way they acted.

I never worked with inmate firemen, but I dod recall the State of Georgia using inmates to lugging a protable damn through some very rough terrain to stop the Chatooga River to look for a girls remains who went off a cliff and died.  I know I would not have wanted to be on that detail.


FYI, if you are in Georgia and get pulled over, just pull over, don't try to out run them, Georgia is a shoot to kill state.  If you are in South Carolina and think running to Georgia is a smart idea, don't do it. SC Hwy Patrol can't shoot to kill, so they kind of let you drive to Georgia, where they will and can do it.  Small town on the GA/SC line states how many evaders they have killed to date, when I left I think the count was up to 12.

SAW

What incentive does a government agency have to cut cost or be cost effective?  They don't MAKE money, they TAKE money. (tax dollars)  Add to that the "use or loose" money at the end of the budget year, what you get is an escalation of cost year after year.  Private industry must watch the bottom line in order to stay in business.  My opinion, successful private companies are more efficiently run than government agencies.

that is the understatement of the year.  Those guys absolutely rake it in with their feet up in their lawn chairs reading magazines and news papers.  Snacks and naps.............

Although because i work for cal fire i have guards that are friends, but at the end of the day a spades a spade