Saw something disturbing today...

Can we all post we read about this on their face book page. That would really shake them up. And I'm sure they would never do that again.

+1

I can only imagine the panic on their end after 50 posts on their page inquiring about "Canada Goose fishing."

Jerry I appreciate the information...while I do understand the desire to maintain their property. I agree, there is no excuse for such clumsy and ignorant harassment of the geese. You have been diplomatic not wanting to negatively color the experiences of past or future guests of High Hill Ranch, but I am happily adding the establishment to a new list of businesses where I wont spend a red cent. They are lucky the State, County, and Feds aren't all over them.
-Amos

I would post it up on their Facebook site https://www.facebook.com/highhillranch

I checked their facebook page.  On the day I was there, they took and posted this photo of the geese on the pond!  Ha!  This might be a good place to make a comment about Goose Fishing... 

https://www.facebook.com/highhillranch/photos/pcb.786337238083292/786336734750009/?type=1&theater


The guy in the red shirt, middle left in the photo was the guy doing the snagging with a pole.  I was sitting just to the right of the person taking this photo at a picnic bench so I had a front row seat to the show.



The day before I went, they posted this photo on their facebook page.  Ha!  I was sitting to the right, near the water in the shade;

Jerry I appreciate the information...while I do understand the desire to maintain their property. I agree, there is no excuse for such clumsy and ignorant harassment of the geese. You have been diplomatic not wanting to negatively color the experiences of past or future guests of High Hill Ranch, but I am happily adding the establishment to a new list of businesses where I wont spend a red cent. They are lucky the State, County, and Feds aren't all over them.
-Amos

You might want to send them a quick email explaining why you won't be going there anymore. For them to understand that the public does not condone the harassment of wildlife on their property is important. Otherwise they won't know the difference. Sound like some real dips***s there. I've never heard of this place. Where is it?

Jerry I appreciate the information...while I do understand the desire to maintain their property. I agree, there is no excuse for such clumsy and ignorant harassment of the geese. You have been diplomatic not wanting to negatively color the experiences of past or future guests of High Hill Ranch, but I am happily adding the establishment to a new list of businesses where I wont spend a red cent. They are lucky the State, County, and Feds aren't all over them.
-Amos

You might want to send them a quick email explaining why you won't be going there anymore. For them to understand that the public does not condone the harassment of wildlife on their property is important. Otherwise they won't know the difference. Sound like some real dips***s there. I've never heard of this place. Where is it?

.


2901 High Hill Rd
Placerville, California

(530) 644-1973

http://www.highhillranch1.net/

 

  Did I miss the reason why the guy was trying to clear the geese off the water? 

I got more e-mails last night.  She said they were 'shewing' the geese because they make a mess and are unsanitary. 

Here, in order I received them, are those e-mails;
First, from Stephenie, who I believe works for Michelle.  At least it seems that way since Michelle tells Stephenie what to say to me in e-mails.

Hi I apologize about the email that was sent to you. I didn't mean to be so unprofessional and I did not mean to say anything bad. I just want you to know that from myself. I will type you what the employees said about the poor geese. I would never hurt an animal and I wasn't there so I can not say what happened. I can tell you that I am apologizing to you for sending an email that was or could have been handled in a better matter. I know people do things sometimes and say things that are crazy rude and dumb I include myself in that area. I am sorry if you didn't get the right message. I will type you the letter that will explain from the employees what happened. Again I am sorry
Thank you
Stephenie

This one from Michelle that I think she meant to send to Stephenie but had just replied to me, not knowing that I was the one who forwarded it to her.  I don't think Stephenie got this and that it wasn't meant for me because she addresses me in the third person and is giving Stephenie instructions on how to respond to my inqury;

This entire situation has me sick . I'm so upset someone believes we would ever intentionally harm an animal . As a PETA Member , Animal Activist and HUGE animal lover AND a vegetarian due to my love of animals  I am horrified ! I believe AL and Cindy did NOT intentionally injure the geese , I do however understand an unfortunate accident happened with the fishing line. The Geese do cause problems here and hurt our business due to all the poop and destroying of the grass ... people cannot sit by the pond and enjoy their meal , who wants to sit in poop not to mention the grass looks horrible and the extra maintenance to clean up after them so I understand AL and Cindy trying to "shew" them away AND they are mean , I have to stand guard when I feed the ducks or the geese won't allow them to eat. All that being said I would NEVER hurt or condone them being hurt. I believe this is an unfortunate misunderstanding and what I'm more concerned with is the fact that an animal was accidently injured and in distress that breaks my heart. As for the concerned gentleman I understand he believes the geese were intentionally injured however I do not belive that to be the case. AL and Cindy ( retired Service and retired Register Nurse ) volunteers for several charities and belong to many organizations are reputable people whom I have every faith in . I'm sorry this incident took place and they will be going about "shewing" the geese in another manner. I hope this resolves this issue. Please forward this to the concerned gentleman tomorrow Stephenie . At this point i am finished with this issue. If he would like to pursue it then he may do so. I sympathize with his feelings however no one is more protective over animals than myself therefore i will make certain this misunderstanding will not take place again. I will call fish and game myself and ask them the best way to shew away the geese. I will also tell them about this as i have worked with Animal Outreach and Shelters and donated to these causes as well. I do NOT need a lesson in how to treat animals ... they are my passion and i am there voice so this gentleman can rest assured it's handled !

A second e-mail from Michelle, this time also addressing me in the third person and with further instruction to Stephenie to have me release the photographer's contact information and photos.

After rereading this gentleman's letter , I would like the contact information and photos of AL and Cindy "intentionally" abusing the Geese . I did ask Cindy about the Geese being unable to fly and she said "it did fly away after a few minutes " . She was upset as well ! I also told her the gentleman said "other people were upset and took photos " she saw people taking photos however she said " no one asked her any questions " otherwise she would have explained exactly what was taking place . I believe AL and Cindy 100 % they are NOT the kind of people who would intentionally do something like that ... that's disgusting ! All of this being said I am sorry this took place and my concern is and will always be for the animals !

So, with all that, I first sent a reply to Stephenie since I got her e-mail first;

Hi Stephenie,
I'm sure you didn't mean any of that.  However, this does make a point; I doubt anyone who knows you would think you wrote and sent what you did, and would side with you if you denied, but it happened.  In the same manner, I'm sure you truly believe Al and Cindy didn't harm the goose, but they did.  I witnessed it.    What we want to believe about someone isn't always the truth.  Al, the fish shack operator, did harm the goose.  Not once, but twice and was going in for a third attempt before the goose finally made an escape and he gave up.  He did this with at least some understanding that the animal was being harmed.

I do understand geese are a nuisance.   Your business is within it's rights to haze geese from their property. Canada geese are state and federally protected under laws and regulations within the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and California Fish and Game Code. However, within those regulations, non-lethal, non-injurious hazing methods are allowed to deter Canada geese from privately-owned property where property damage or a nuisance may occur to the landowner.  A property owner is allowed to scare resident geese away from his property with non-lethal, non-injurious means at any time.  Possible suggestions for hazing geese away from properties include landscape modification to make the area less attractive to resident geese (e.g. keep grass short to discourage feeding), visual deterrents, such as scarecrows, predator decoys, mylar flagging and balloons, and fencing.

I have no idea how Al will portray his actions of that morning.  I do find it interesting that Al and Cindy recollect the events of that day if there wasn't anything unusual about it.  I'm sure he will claim to recollect this in a much different light in an effort to protect himself from repercussion.  But I have to ask you; why would I, a guest of the ranch, just sipping my coffee and enjoying an apple fritter while reading the newspaper, have any reason to make up such a story if it had not happened?  The answer is; there would be no reason.  I love High Hill.  I've been going there for over 40 years.  I recall the days when there were helicopter rides and the mushroom cave.  My kids and grand kids have fished that pond and ridden ponies there.  It is for those reasons that I even try to bring what happened to light; that this is not the way High Hill has been operated in the past and saddened me to see it come to what I witnessed that morning.
I look forward to Al and Cindy's take on what happened.
Regards,
Jerry

Then, after receiving and reading both of Michelle's e-mails, I replied to her.  Like I said, I believe she thought she was sending her e-mails to Stephenie with instructions on how to deal with me and hasn't realized she didn't but sent to me only.

Michelle,
I too am about finished with this discussion.  I understand you and believe you when you say you do not believe this couple intentionally harmed the goose.  I never said they intentionally harmed them.  I described what I saw.  Cindy is not telling you the truth of the matter and I am not surprised.   You've told me of three just in your reply;
1. You said that Cindy stipulated the goose could fly away after a few minutes. The goose did not fly away after a few minutes.  Al caught it once with the fishing pole and the line broke.  The goose could not fly and he got another rod and caught it again, this time ripping the flight feathers out with the line.  He tried a third time, this time the goose, unable to fly, made it to the trees where he couldn't cast any more.  Cindy was done after the second capture and that is when the Hispanic man came out to help Al.  Cindy was no where around, probably in the fishing shack.
2. You said that Cindy sitpulated that she was not asked a question, yet recalls the woman taking photos.  That woman did ask her a question.  She was asked if she was teaching the geese to dance on the water. (The woman told me later that she saw a show on TV where geese were trained to move to music and thought perhaps that was what was going on.) Cindy replied by turning to this woman and with a bit of an annoyed look on her face, said No.
3. You said that Cindy stipulated she would have explained herself if she had been asked a question.  Cindy offered no other explanation to the woman after her no reply to her question.

I do not doubt you believe Al and Cindy 100%.  However I want to ask you a question;  Why would I come to you about this and coming forward, why would I make up any of it.  I can tell you that what I have told you is 100% accurate.  I can tell you that if Cindy or Al tells you anything else, then they are lying.
It seems that you have talked to Cindy and only Cindy.  I recommend that you pull Al aside and ask him the same questions and see what his answers are to see if he gives the same replies.  I would guess there would be discrepancies between their stories.

I contacted one woman who took the photos that morning.  She was told of YOUR plan to use her photos to "get them in trouble for taking photos without the knowledge of those involved! " Those were your exact words.  You've used the word 'disgusting' a few times now.  What you intend is exactly that; trying to intimidate a witness for doing what is lawful.  She has decided that her photos would be released to the Mt. Democrat instead.  What the newspaper chooses to do with them is up to them.  I asked her to hold off until I have heard back on what the letter, promised to me by Stephenie, from Cindy and Al had to say as it would be part of any story we went to the newspaper with.

So take some time and see if Al's story matches that of Cindy's.  Send the letter Stephenie promised from Al and Cindy too.  If their explanation of what occurred matches what we saw and apologizes for their actions, then neither of us plan to take this any further.  But, if Cindy and Al continue to claim they didn't harm that goose and that it could fly, then we are wasting our time discussing this any further with you.
Regards,
Jerry

By now, I'm pretty sure they are worse off than that poor goose.  Ha!  My bet is that they will give instruction to Al and Cindy to not do anything like this again. 

HAHAHAHAHA
Well, at least she apologized.
Man I bet she would be pretty devastated if she knew we are all following this entire thing here.
Me and my wife are going up to the hills for some fritters and apple pie an juice Saturday.
Will not be giving these folks any of my business.
I also wouldn't go there to say anything negative about their treatment of the geese

Hey Matt, I did a little edit since you read that post in case you wanted the full re-cap. 

The paper is an excellent idea. The only way for Stephanie to stay ahead of this is to fire al and Cindy and make a monetary donation to a wildlife rescue.  Decent result here. She probably makes those kinds of donations anyway, seems like an innocent at least from instruction of employees on methods to harass nuisance wildlife, and still gets some comeuppance for the way she tried to cover up/make it go away.

This is not a hill she wants to die on. Good work.

Thanks for all of the time and effort posting this... you handled it in a very professional manner, bravo... I'm amused at their lack of know-how when it comes to an email reply, and really showed their true colors. Yelp, Facebook, etc, would be a fine place to share our disappointment with the situation.

The way you handled this is laudable. I am also shocked at the lack of sophistication the business people have shown in regard to their email messages.  Repeatedly copying you even after you revealed their mistakes is really surprising.

What A dick.

I got a call today from Stephenie from High Hill.  I guess some have posted on their facebook page and that got their attention.  Anyways, she assured me that this won't happen again.  She has a letter from Cindy that she is sending me.  She read it to me and she admitted to most of what happened.  She insists that the goose did fly away eventually, but if it did, that was after I left and why that goose wouldn't have left asap, is where her story falls apart.  I'm pretty sure this shook them all up enough to not risk a public relations disaster at the onset of the apple hill season. 

I'm glad you folks here encouraged me enough to make contact and to keep the coals to their feet.  I'm gonna call it a day and I would encourage others to do the same.  The point was made, I'm sure! 

I got a call today from Stephenie from High Hill.  I guess some have posted on their facebook page and that got their attention.  Anyways, she assured me that this won't happen again.  She has a letter from Cindy that she is sending me.  She read it to me and she admitted to most of what happened.  She insists that the goose did fly away eventually, but if it did, that was after I left and why that goose wouldn't have left asap, is where her story falls apart.  I'm pretty sure this shook them all up enough to not risk a public relations disaster at the onset of the apple hill season. 

I'm glad you folks here encouraged me enough to make contact and to keep the coals to their feet.  I'm gonna call it a day and I would encourage others to do the same.  The point was made, I'm sure!

You handled this very well.  Hard to give them the benefit of the doubt after calling you stupid and trying to intimidate.

Time to fish