mercury poisoning

Shellfish don't have the same mercury problem Antonio. It's the big predatory fish 'that eat other/smaller fish' that contain higher levels of mercury.

Muchisimas gracias Pat and everyone else for the important insight on this topic

Salmon are not apex predators and are short lived fast growing fish which is key to accumulation. The faster growing farmed salmon have 3x less Hg than wild, but are not recommended because of environmental concerns. Apex, slow growing and long lived predators are what you see in the table pole provided with the highest levels.

Had no idea about herring and antidepressants, I wonder what it is that makes the contraindicated. All I know about herring is my dad ate creamed and pickled herring and it was some nasty shit. Those scandinavians certainly know how to make some rank seafood.

polepole: good catch on the trop(h)ic. Dont know why there was a malfunction from my head to my fingers, could be the mercury.

So cabezon is better than lingcod since cabezon feed primarily on crab and abalone while lingcod have a more varied diet including rockfish?  Herring, anchovies and perch are good?

http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/swamp/docs/coast_study/bog2012may/coast2012factsheet.pdf

See page 6 for specific species mercury levels.  Cab you will notice is slightly more contaminated than Ling.

Being an adult male or a non child bearing female lowers the risk associated with mercury consumption, right?

Mercury causes damage to the reproductive organs, that's why children, developing young men and women in their child bearing years should consume less.  It can still cause damage in adult men, they can't pass that damage on to a child.

Salmon are not apex predators and are short lived fast growing fish which is key to accumulation.

Why aren't salmon apex?

And if they aren't, are albacore also not?

Albacore have a lifespan ~3X longer than salmon, but have 16X higher mean mercury accumulation.  So it's not just lifespan.

The point I'm trying to make is that the guidelines are just general.  Best to look if up for the species you are eating.  There is a ton of info on the web.

-Allen

Salmon are definately not apex, that would be the sharks that eat the seals that eat the salmon.  Apex are top predators such as orcas, lions, etc. Bluefin are considered an close to an apex predator which is whythey have higher levels than skipjack that are smaller and shorter lived. 

If albacore live longer they should have more, that makes sense. Im not sure what albacore prey upon, but if its larger species than the crill and baitfish salmon prey upon than it should be significantly more.
 
I agree that its better to look up the levels of the species you eat, but I also think its important to understand the mechanisms and how significantly levels build as you move up the food chain. For example crill eat plankton so thats 10, salmon eat crill 100, seal eats salmon 1000, WS eats seal thats 10000, orca kills and eats liver of WS 100,000. Crude example but it is significant and in case you can't look it up you can use simple reasoning to assess the risk.

Salmon are definately not apex, that would be the sharks that eat the seals that eat the salmon.  Apex are top predators such as orcas, lions, etc. Bluefin are considered an close to an apex predator which is whythey have higher levels than skipjack that are smaller and shorter lived. 

If albacore live longer they should have more, that makes sense. Im not sure what albacore prey upon, but if its larger species than the crill and baitfish salmon prey upon than it should be significantly more.
 
I agree that its better to look up the levels of the species you eat, but I also think its important to understand the mechanisms and how significantly levels build as you move up the food chain. For example crill eat plankton so thats 10, salmon eat crill 100, seal eats salmon 1000, WS eats seal thats 10000, orca kills and eats liver of WS 100,000. Crude example but it is significant and in case you can't look it up you can use simple reasoning to assess the risk.

Simple reasoning is good until it bites you in the ass.  Simple reasoning would never have suggested that batt would have had mercury poisoning.  Simple reasoning would have suggested to me that salmon have similar levels to albacore, maybe proportionally higher due to longevity.  Simple reasoning doesn't seem to be holding up here.  That's why I'm asking more complex reasoning questions.

-Allen

Im not saying simple reasoning based on assumptions, but rather facts. For example, if you know that tuna do not occupy the same level as salmon, which they don't, then you could reason from the 10x rule that tuna in general will have higher levels than salmon. Of course there are many types of tunas and some have much lower levels than others because of the niche they are in.

I would not nor have I speculated as to why something so unfortunate would happen, and diagnosis is not simple reasoning (after 3 years of missing before landing on lymes was painfully obvious).

I guess "simple" reasoning isnt what I am talking about, and was a poor choice of words. Education regarding the ecosystem we exist in is a good thing, in my opinion, and can help to aid in understanding.

But most of the info on toxin levels in fish is out there, so that is by far the best way to know whats in what you are eating.

Im not saying simple reasoning based on assumptions, but rather facts. For example, if you know that tuna do not occupy the same level as salmon, which they don't, then you could reason from the 10x rule that tuna in general will have higher levels than salmon. Of course there are many types of tunas and some have much lower levels than others because of the niche they are in.

Before we continue ... I'm not trying to be argumentative.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

I do not know that albacore tuna does NOT occupy the same level as salmon.  And from personal experience, they are roughly the same size and have very similar diets (baitfish, squid, krill).

-Allen

The main reason salmon are on prey end of the spectrum (from species that change light to food to apex that rarely get preyed upon) is that salmon spend a large part of their lives on the prey end of the spectrum and tuna on the predator end. Most tunas are considered closer to apex with the exception of skipjack, which happen to have the lowest levels of tunas I think. (dont quote me on that)

Definately not taking it as argumentative, nor am I trying to be.  Discussion helps to organize thoughts and learn better ways of communication on my part. My main point is understanding how bioaccumulation works and wher in the ecosystem the fish we target and reside can really help to understand the awesome fda chart you linked earlier, the two really work well together.
 
Lots of things are not intuitive as life and life systems are very complex, so arming oneself with the right tools to aid in understanding is important to navigating data, IMHO. Mercury poisoning is gnarly, saw black and white footage of Japanes fisherman that had ridiculous high levels (forgive me as I forget the reason) and they looked like they were in the late stages of parkinsons.  Not a joke. And I resided in an upper midwest state where you could only eat one fish a month for the mercury levels from iron ore runoff. Not cool at all, so its an issue I have spent some time grappling with.

Hopefully this adds to an informative thread about a subject we as fishers need to know about. If not, well, Im just a baitfish 

I get my blood work done monthly for heavy metals. You guys would shit if you seen my levels. We get tested for HG, PB, Arsenic (AS), BE (Beryllium), & CD (Cadmium). There are levels associated with each one, and heavy metals are not readily removed from the body. Being exposed all my life to the mining industry, handling explosives and munnitions, and eating fish and other food contaminants, I have very elevated levels in my system. I think you will be ok with consuming fish in moderation.

Got so much metal in me from 'Nam, when I kick my son gonna make a mint recycling my parts.  In fact my @7ck is shaped like a bullion

Im not saying simple reasoning based on assumptions, but rather facts. For example, if you know that tuna do not occupy the same level as salmon, which they don't, then you could reason from the 10x rule that tuna in general will have higher levels than salmon. Of course there are many types of tunas and some have much lower levels than others because of the niche they are in.

Before we continue ... I'm not trying to be argumentative.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

I do not know that albacore tuna does NOT occupy the same level as salmon.  And from personal experience, they are roughly the same size and have very similar diets (baitfish, squid, krill).

-Allen

Allen my guess would be (and its only a guess) is that an Albie is like a supercharged hotrod and probably needs to eat 4x times as much as a salmon, which using my analogy would be like a family sedan.

Im not saying simple reasoning based on assumptions, but rather facts. For example, if you know that tuna do not occupy the same level as salmon, which they don't, then you could reason from the 10x rule that tuna in general will have higher levels than salmon. Of course there are many types of tunas and some have much lower levels than others because of the niche they are in.

Before we continue ... I'm not trying to be argumentative.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

I do not know that albacore tuna does NOT occupy the same level as salmon.  And from personal experience, they are roughly the same size and have very similar diets (baitfish, squid, krill).

-Allen

Allen my guess would be (and its only a guess) is that an Albie is like a supercharged hotrod and probably needs to eat 4x times as much as a salmon, which using my analogy would be like a family sedan.

That's as good a guess as any!  Or maybe the geographic difference (different migration patterns around the Pacific) account for the differing levels of mercury.  Or a combination of these factors and more (much more?).  But now we're getting beyond the average consumer's knowledge and simple reasoning.

 

-Allen

What are the symptoms of mercury poisoning for a reasonably healthy adult?

Just so I can get all nervous and paranoid?

 

Sincerely,

Jim

Interesting topic.  My grandparents used to use the phrase "mad as a hatter" to describe crazy people.  Don't hear it much anymore.  Refers to mercury poisoning suffered from 18-19th century hat makers due to chronic exposure. 

Better get checked Jim so we don't have to update the saying to
"Mad as an A-hull!"      


From Wikipedia:

"Mad as a hatter" is a colloquial phrase used in conversation to refer to a crazy person. In 18th and 19th century England mercury was used in the production of felt, which was used in the manufacturing of hats common of the time. People who worked in these hat factories were exposed daily to trace amounts of the metal, which accumulated within their bodies over time, causing some workers to develop dementia caused by mercury poisoning (called mad hatter syndrome). Thus, the phrase became popular as a way to refer to someone who was perceived as insane.