Could this give Hobie a run for its money?

Seems like Hobie & others need to consider an elevated seat to aide in the pedal/propeller drive.

I think some independent side by side testing with some realistic pre-defined measures should be in order. Kind of an NCKA Bench Mark Test:

Some suggested criteria on a 1-10 point basis:
Overall weight
Ease of lifting/loading
Balance when lifting
Time to set up for launch
Stock Seat comfort
Storage capacity
Stock Ruder Function
Turning radius
reverse function
How Dry is the ride
How well does it handle the surf launches
How well does it paddle with out the main drive unit
How well does a guy 5 foot 5 vs a guy 6 foot 4 fot into it.
Rod holders
ergonomics
Water bottle storage (cause I hate the Quest WB storage location)

Just a few suggestions, I am sure some of you vets can come with a lot more ideas.  But it would be nic eot see us have a standard benchmark for testing, so newbs and everyone else could look to see the pro's and con's in a standard format.  Certain boats we love, because wellt hey are really stable, but as you get better and more expierenced you discover are slow and tedious to paddle.  Other boats are faster, but may be less stable for a newb, or a guy my size may swamp it.

Good list but most of these are subjective to the user.  The only "real" data has to be measurable; length, width, weight, options, etc...  Some of the other stuff can be measurable for data BUT is that really useable data to the masses of buyers?  We could, for example, measure hull resistance.

Sounds like a job for Mythbusters!

I think it is all measureable information.  How many times do we see posts that say this boat is great!  But then some one else says its heavy or something else.  No one is using a pre defined measuring stick.  Car, Trucks, motorcycles do, it is not just opinion but more harder defined facts.  If a company says there boat peddles faster than a revo 13 okay our memebers who tried head to head said other wisec, or said yes.  My Hobbie Quest doesn't track for a flip without a rudder, one look at the bottom of the hull and you understand why, there is no real keel to it.  But it take in a river and spins very well for its size, of course it is a first gen model.

I tried one of these...

I did not like ergonomics of it...

Your feet are up to high and it's too much of a reclined position...  even having your feet on the pedals all day on a Hobie can get tiresome, but not as bad as the propel...

my 2 pesos...

Where did you try a Slayer Propel?  They are not out yet.  The pedals ergonomics are better on this one.

Here is a pic of pedal powered "kayak" that is fast. 12 inch x20 foot main hull with outriggers. 19 kilometers per hour claimed top speed. For more info google Rick Willoughby V15-58. I've been impressed by their designs and the flexible cable shaft used to drive the prop. Obviously the setup is full revolution bike cranks using clip in bike shoes to obtain maximum efficiency on the water. Stabilizers are a must but the whole vessel is less than 50 pounds. I think the mirage drives are quite good and the push push pedal system permits a lower center of gravity for the user as opposed to having to have legs higher up to perform complete cycle revolutions. Thus a single relatively narrow hull like the Adventure is possible with decent stability. In terms of getting the most out of effort pedal wise a full cycle revolution is hard to beat.

I gave this this kayak a test drive today.  I think the Slayer hull with Propel drive could give Hobie a run for its money.  Keep an eye on this one folks!

-Allen

How about a little back to back review? Closest Hobie model vs new Propel driven Slayer. If you are saying it's that good I'd like to know more.

You mean side-by-side?  Will work on that once I get home later tgus week.  Im at Outdoor Retailer show right now.   A couple of us had no issues pacing a Revo 13.  And the slayer hull was definitely quicker orr the line and more respinsive than the Mariner Propel.

That's cool. Hard to compare two completely different systems, propeller vs fins, on different hulls without having a varied group of people test the kayaks back to back on the same days in the same places & have them all write up their thoughts on each. When Dirtrider magazine tests all of the different dirtbikes for their annual 'Bike of the Year' test they use at least four different people with different riding styles, age groups, & different personal bikes owned to try to get the most objective input on all of the contenders. They also ride all of the bikes on different terrain such as mx tracks, tight singletrack, high speed desert, etc so maybe a multi day test on a choppy windy ocean, on a lake with flat calm, & in a river with good flow would also be best. I know that Icast also has a kayak of the year, although I don't know how that choice is determined, so we'll see if this Slayer gets that distinction like the PA12 did. In the meantime I'm looking forward to your thoughts after more testing.

I agree that there is much subjectivity in "what"s best" claims. The Human Powered Boat guys used a correlation between heart beats per minute and watts burned which was measured by a power tap on a training bike to determine human energy output efficiency. Obviously that is an individual variant. Their interest was in racing, ours in fishing where we have to accept more hull and power compromises. I was interested in trying to build something like they have but decided the time investment wasn't worth it. Materials are cheap enough, foam and glass and bike parts. I attached a pic of one of the drive systems. Sooner or later some big company will pick up their concept and patent and market it. The DIY guys have either no interest in mass production or enough money to make a go of it.

I tried one of these...

I did not like ergonomics of it...

Your feet are up to high and it's too much of a reclined position...  even having your feet on the pedals all day on a Hobie can get tiresome, but not as bad as the propel...

my 2 pesos...

Where did you try a Slayer Propel?  They are not out yet.  The pedals ergonomics are better on this one.

I stopped by Native's booth on Thursday and had a chat with Woody Callaway, head honcho at Native.

I asked him about the pedal drive placement.  It is the same exact Propel unit that are on their other kayaks.  On the Slayer version, they were able to place it such that your hips are more level with the crank, i.e. the pedals aren't as high up in the air as the other models.

I also asked him if they did anything to address the cavitation issues I've noticed on the other models.  On the Slayer model, it was well reduced, but still there at times when I "over pedaled" it.  Woody really appreciated that I noticed the difference.  They made some improvements in the design of the cavity through the kayak in order to force more water (and hence less air) to address the cavitation.  The proto model they were showing sort of had it hacked in, but they expect even better performance from the final production unit.

Production is scheduled for the October timeframe.  I'll be working with Native to get one out here ASAP to do a more thorough review.

-Allen

Here's a pic of the Slayer Propel's bottom, as posted by Woody on FB.

Here is what he had to say on that post.

So here is a view of the Slayer People's hull. The green patch is a change in the hull that we welded in focusing the water towards the prop earlier thus allowing the prop to catch more water and also allowed the prop to work better in skinner water...definitely the hit of the show. Crazy how many rip off designs of our Slayer seat showed up here but none are as. Comfortable nor as good looking. Thanks to all of you for giving your input without which we could not have pulled off this design....thanks!!!

-Allen

I tried one of these...

I did not like ergonomics of it...

Your feet are up to high and it's too much of a reclined position...  even having your feet on the pedals all day on a Hobie can get tiresome, but not as bad as the propel...

my 2 pesos...

Where did you try a Slayer Propel?  They are not out yet.  The pedals ergonomics are better on this one.

I stopped by Native's booth on Thursday and had a chat with Woody Callaway, head honcho at Native.

I asked him about the pedal drive placement.  It is the same exact Propel unit that are on their other kayaks.  On the Slayer version, they were able to place it such that your hips are more level with the crank, i.e. the pedals aren't as high up in the air as the other models.

I also asked him if they did anything to address the cavitation issues I've noticed on the other models.  On the Slayer model, it was well reduced, but still there at times when I "over pedaled" it.  Woody really appreciated that I noticed the difference.  They made some improvements in the design of the cavity through the kayak in order to force more water (and hence less air) to address the cavitation.  The proto model they were showing sort of had it hacked in, but they expect even better performance from the final production unit.

Production is scheduled for the October timeframe.  I'll be working with Native to get one out here ASAP to do a more thorough review.

-Allen

It was a few years back when the rep was trying to get me to pimp them...

  just did not like it...

I have not tried a recent design....

I tried one of these...

I did not like ergonomics of it...

Your feet are up to high and it's too much of a reclined position...  even having your feet on the pedals all day on a Hobie can get tiresome, but not as bad as the propel...

my 2 pesos...

Where did you try a Slayer Propel?  They are not out yet.  The pedals ergonomics are better on this one.

I stopped by Native's booth on Thursday and had a chat with Woody Callaway, head honcho at Native.

I asked him about the pedal drive placement.  It is the same exact Propel unit that are on their other kayaks.  On the Slayer version, they were able to place it such that your hips are more level with the crank, i.e. the pedals aren't as high up in the air as the other models.

I also asked him if they did anything to address the cavitation issues I've noticed on the other models.  On the Slayer model, it was well reduced, but still there at times when I "over pedaled" it.  Woody really appreciated that I noticed the difference.  They made some improvements in the design of the cavity through the kayak in order to force more water (and hence less air) to address the cavitation.  The proto model they were showing sort of had it hacked in, but they expect even better performance from the final production unit.

Production is scheduled for the October timeframe.  I'll be working with Native to get one out here ASAP to do a more thorough review.

-Allen

It was a few years back when the rep was trying to get me to pimp them...

  just did not like it...

I have not tried a recent design....

It's an unfair comparison then.

I would compare the Slayer Propel to something sort of in between a Revo 13 and an Outback.  Comparing to an older Mariner Propel or a Hobie AI wouldn't be the right comparison to do.

-Allen

I tried one of these...

I did not like ergonomics of it...

Your feet are up to high and it's too much of a reclined position...  even having your feet on the pedals all day on a Hobie can get tiresome, but not as bad as the propel...

my 2 pesos...

Where did you try a Slayer Propel?  They are not out yet.  The pedals ergonomics are better on this one.

I stopped by Native's booth on Thursday and had a chat with Woody Callaway, head honcho at Native.

I asked him about the pedal drive placement.  It is the same exact Propel unit that are on their other kayaks.  On the Slayer version, they were able to place it such that your hips are more level with the crank, i.e. the pedals aren't as high up in the air as the other models.

I also asked him if they did anything to address the cavitation issues I've noticed on the other models.  On the Slayer model, it was well reduced, but still there at times when I "over pedaled" it.  Woody really appreciated that I noticed the difference.  They made some improvements in the design of the cavity through the kayak in order to force more water (and hence less air) to address the cavitation.  The proto model they were showing sort of had it hacked in, but they expect even better performance from the final production unit.

Production is scheduled for the October timeframe.  I'll be working with Native to get one out here ASAP to do a more thorough review.

-Allen

It was a few years back when the rep was trying to get me to pimp them...

  just did not like it...

I have not tried a recent design....

It's an unfair comparison then.

I would compare the Slayer Propel to something sort of in between a Revo 13 and an Outback.  Comparing to an older Mariner Propel or a Hobie AI wouldn't be the right comparison to do.

-Allen

Oh...

That's very Different...