Questions about Deep Six and other divers

What's up NCKA?

I've got a couple questions about trolling with a Deep Six or other diving plane...

I'm a pretty environmentally conscious guy, and dropping 3 lbs of lead to the ocean floor yesterday didn't feel quite right.

So here goes:

1) How deep can you ACTUALLY go with a Deep Six? Double Deep Six? Yes, I'm sure I could read this on the packaging, but who trusts packaging?

2) For a given depth (let's say 45 feet down), do you have more or less drag than a 1.5 or 2-lb cannonball?

Thanks to anyone who chimes in.

Cheers,

~Alex

+1 to his questions, and how many pulls gets you how many feet deep at 1-2 mph troll?

I've only tried a deep six once for kokes. That thing had some serious drag!!To help fight the drag a bit use a downrigger type clip attached to your crate or somewhere behind you to suck the line in close to your boat. Helps a lot!!

The basic standard for most divers is 1/3rd line out = depth

I'm far from an expert on this issue but I have been using something called a LongLiner when trolling.  I have only used it in fresh water for trout but it's designed to be trolled at varying depths and should work for Salmon in the ocean.  The weight is not dropped when using this. It's available at anglerinnovations.com.  I believe there's a video on the site that shows the device in action. I plan to try it out at Shelter Cove in a couple of weeks.  I know the Deep Six is a proven winner but this thing looks like it might be a good alternative??

My general feeling when using deep six or the like is if I want to be down more than 80 to 100 feet I go to with lead. If less, than a deep six works for me. I don't like dropping expensive lead all over the ocean either. If you are doing a lot of salmon fishing then get a heavy reel at a garage sale and make yourself a downrigger.

What line angle do you end up with when using a Deep Six at normal trolling speed of 2-3 kts? With the 1.5-lb ball, I ended up with about a 45 degree line angle which made it easy to estimate my depth based on number of pulls.

Yeah I usually get in the 45+60 degree range on a 4oz double deep six. The line will hit the water at the hobie outbacks stern

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Yeah I usually get in the 45+60 degree range on a 4oz double deep six. The line will hit the water at the hobie outbacks stern

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Good info. Thanks. And the drag isn't toooo bad? I'm in an Outback with turbo fins and sailing rudder, and didn't find dragging 1.5-lb balls to be the least bit difficult. I could handle a little more drag if it means not dropping toxic lead...

Alex -

I use the size 001 double deep 6 and you don't even notice any drag in a Hobie. I would say the 001 has the same drag as a 2 pound ball. Eric uses the 002 and paddles and seems to do fine. When I paddle, the 002 had noticeable drag which is why I only use the 001. Here are the specs.

No. 001 dives to 90 feet.
No. 002 dives to 135 feet.

I use a Davis fish seeker too but for now prefer the D6. As far as color, anyone is fine as long as it is GREEN.  Lead is expensive and not good for the environment so I only use sinker releases when I have to, AKA party boat. OTW there are the downrigger guys who give their intel in feet and the D6 guys who give their intel in pulls.

scott

Good info here, Alex.  DeepSix is a great option and used by any powerboat that doesn't have downriggers, and many that do have DR also run DS on rods 2 or 3 through the rest of them.

Like Scott said, I use the biggest Double DeepSix (I think!).  It does cause lots of drag, and I often paddle 60 to 80% of the time on one side due to it.  I make sure my pulls are from spool to first eye - right at 2', and I count on being down about 20 feet at 20 pulls, but that depends on current.  I troll at varying speeds but generally about 2 MPH.  I've had 80 pulls out in 100 feet of water and not been hitting bottom, and I've gotten snagged in 100' with only 60 or so pulls out, so current is huge.  Also, giving examples of lots of pulls is just for the sake of knowledge - most fishing is at 30 pulls, and you live for those awesome days when fish are biting at 15 to 20 pulls.

I've used the smallest size DS up at Tahoe for kokanee the last three years, and it works great to get down to 25' where I wanted to be, and the slow trolling that comes with koke fishing helps it be more effective.  That said, I've been wanting to catch an ocean king on the smallest DS for three years, and this year I bagged a limit on it out of Eureka on Father's Day.  I had a watermelon Brad's Cutplug about 40" behind the little DS and figured to change it out for bait once I got to 100' of water.  At 80' I got hammered and landed a 16 pounder.  There was no way I was going to change that little sucker and the Brad's out at that point, so I went on to have another fatty on in 5 minutes and then picked up the limit fish in another 5 to 10 minutes.  Having less drag while trolling was no big deal but handy for having a presentation out there when transiting between launch and the best bite, but having less gear on the line for fighting a fish is very appealing.  The bite out of Humboldt Bay is generally better early (dawn to 7 or 8AM), so I'll keep running that little DS and Brad's while I troll out to the good bite areas, then I'll switch out to the Double DS, Herring Dodger and a mooching slip rig with anchovy.  I like green for the DS like Scott, but I run a red/pink one too, and it catches plenty of fish.

I've got 146 miles in on salmon trips this year, and that's fishing an average of once a week since early April.  I need that type of exercise since I don't play soccer or run much any more, and I admit I love the fishing and wilderness experiences too! 

Trolling is a discipline and fantastic therapy.   

Hell yeah! Thanks, Scott and Eric. That's exactly the info I was looking for. I'll pick up a couple Deep Sixes next time I'm at the shop.

Cheers,

~Alex

PS:  The DS, flasher/dodger and terminal gear can easily become tangled if a turn is too tight or if you don't let it out while you're moving, having confirmed beforehand right next to your boat that the "train" of gear is all running properly with NO line loops over parts of the DS or knots in the gear.  You get used to pulling the train in, resetting the DS and laying it forward as you bring the terminal gear to your lap for hooking another bait on, and you always deploy the gear with utmost attention on that proper train.  Always.  A mistake means you're either not even presenting something that a fish will bite, or, maybe worse, a fish could strike and break your line if the train is at all fouled.

A discipline of love, I tell you!   

Good tips. I'm finding it SOOO much easier to deploy trolling gear now that I've got the Hobie. I'm sure there's an art form to it with paddles, but I never quite got there...

I'll probably just start off dragging an Apex with no flasher just to get the hang of it. Seems to work

Once I got used to using the down rigger I really like them.  I know the depth pretty accurately (shows up on fish finder most of the time).  I don't have to do trig guessing game like divers.
I can set back or stack them w/ shuttle hawks, so more make sense for me to use them for kokes.
I've never have success w/ deep six like Scott or Eric, so I'm not big fun of them (doesn't deploy that easy) but using the down rigger for ocean salmon w/ paddling kayak seems to me too difficult (barbless & strong swimming fish).
I like the double deep six so far tho. It feels more relay on the depth.


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Some of us were discussing the way we think the deep 6 divers work and since it was our first time using them, we really didn't have much of an understanding on how they work.  For the double deep 6, there is size 1 which is 4oz, and size 2 which is 7oz.  Just trying to see if my understanding of the way it works is right or not.  For example, lets say you want to achieve a depth of 40ft.  Does that mean you will need to let out more line with the size 1 vs size 2 in order to achieve that depth?

I am also curious where the diving depth rating comes from.  For example size 1 says it dives to 90ft.  Does that mean with X amount of line and with boat moving, the diver won't go any deeper than 90ft kind of like crankbaits made for certain depths?