Knots-braid to mono

I use a variation on the uni that can be found online as the 'shelton speed knot', but I've been using it since before shelton (it's basically a hangmans noose) so I won't give him credit for it.  The knot is very strong.

Mono knots tend to be weak because mono is weakened when it's kinked.  If the knot forces the mono to bend over sharply it will tend to break at that bend.  That's why the palomar knot is one of the strongest knots, it doesn't have any sharp bends (but it makes a big ball of knot).

The best bet for connecting spectra to mono is a snap swivel.  Use a palomar knot on the spectra to the swivel and a double surgeons loop on the mono.  Then you can change rigs too.  When I break off the swivel on a snag I go with the noose-noose and it holds quite well.

I'd reccomend against a 15lb leader with 20lb spectra.  You'll break that leader quite often.  20lb is the bare minimum for rockfish IMO, or you're just wasting tackle on snags.  I use 20 or 30lb spectra and 50lb mono leader.  The spectra always breaks first on a snag - above the knot too.  Spectra gets frayed and weakened, so I consider it a good thing to break it once and a while and weed out the weak spots.

There is a great article in the July/August issue of sportfishing magazine comparing braids and braid knots.  Here's a summary.

Sixteen 20# braid lines were tested.  They all overtested from 23.4  up to 54.5 pounds mean breaking strength.   Berkley Fireline was the highest.  Suffic Performance Braid was the lowest.  The cheapest braid at $4.66 per 100 yards was Western Filament Tuf Line and it tested at 34.5#.  My favorite, Power Pro, tested at 33# but was $9.67 per 100 yards.

The article went on to test the Berley Fireline (54.4# mean) with different knots including connection to 50# mono, splicing to the same line, and to a swivel.  A 20 turn Bimini tested at 81% of the 54.5  pounds mean.  The 12 turn Bimini tested to 80%.  The next best knots were 54% or lower.  The article tested the 12 vs 20 turn bimini knot with many different lines.  The 12 turn bimini was better in most cases, which goes against the conventional wisdom that more turns on a bimini are better.  In fact a 40-60 turn bimin broke at less stength.  Connecting a mono leaded with a 12 wrap Yukatan knot came in best at 78%.   Remember that this is 78% of the 54.4# braid to a 50# mono leader so it tested to 42.7#, much more than the 20# braid rating.

For connection to a swivel, a palomar tied going 2 times through the swivel tested at 100%!

For line to line splice, the uni-to-uni tested at ~40%.  That surprised me.  A Yukatan to Yukatan tied with a double line on each side tested best to 59%.  I guess splicing line to line is no good!

All testing was done on the IGFA testing machine used to certify line for records.

What does this mean?  Tie to a swivel when using a mono leader if you can.  If you can't use a swivel (when using topshots for instance), use a 12 turn bimini with a 12 wrap Yukatan.  Western Filament Tuf line will do the job just fine at the cheapest cost.

-Allen

it's always interesting when they do these tests.

maybe their knot tyer just sucked at his job? Well, my own albrights eventually fail, I have to say, and I can't tie them on the water.
I ended up last year using a big 3 way swivel as the join from spectra to mono. then I could attach a fly teaser to the 3 way swivel too.

But if you are using 30lb spectra and <8lb drag, then you are okay with breaking strength @ 15lb for the knot, right? no biggie.

btw, big 1000 yard spools of 50, 8 and 6lb fireline on sale here (but still not that great a per/yard price, around $5)
http://www.ffo-tackle.com

I am right in the process of doing this as I am rigging a couple of my rods for the kelp.

In fact, I am doing exactly what bsteves was talking about.  I have 30# spectra on my inshore-rod and my pitching stick, but we all know what a PITA 30# spectra is when you snag fishing reefs on a kayak, thus I have tied on 12# fluro leaders with the double uni.  They are almost exactly the same diameter (no matter what power pro says about pound test diameters).  Now I am all set up with my kelp jigs and ready to get some rockfish and lings.

I really like the double uni knot and it is easier to tie than it looks.  You can trim it very close also.

MolBasser

jmairey,  if I wanted 15# breaking strength, that's what I'd buy.  In reality there are a number of things that can occur that force to me go higher drag.  Instantaneous drag can peak higher.  Or if I snag I want the few extra pounds to help free me.  You get the picture.

I wish they would have tested 20# spectra to 20# mono.  With the 50# mono they used, they were testing the spectra knot itself.  My main concern has been the spectra cutting the mono, not the spectra knot breaking.  I usually only tie a spectra to mono topshot once before heading out on the water and use enough mono (20') so that I can trim back during the day.  So I can take the extra time to tie a bimini/yukatan.  However, come to think of it, most of my breakoffs are in the mono.  So my doubled spectra uni-to-uni 20#-to-20# must be doing the something right.

Molbasser, 12# line won't last long when there are teeth involved.  Do you take 12 all the way to the hook or do you have a thicker leader section?

-Allen

I've had no problem with 12# and lings in the past.  No other leader.  30# spectra to 12# fluoro to jig.

The rods are actually more set up for rockfish that have the sandpaper teeth anyway.

This setup is killer on calicos and sandbass in kelp down south.

I anticipate it will be fine up here.  Worst case scenario I go up to 20# topshot.

I do not like having anything over 20# test tied to a lure in a kayak, as snaggs with anything heavier really suck and I would rather not cut 80 feet of mono/braid in the ocean.

MolBasser

Allen, True, I was thinking of off the kayak where high drag just means you get pulled over the water,
but if one drove a boat 100 miles to lose a tuna to a 15lb breaking strength knot, that would suck!

Sounds like your own knots are working pretty well. You could test your own knots? set up a little gallows,
drop a few weights, see how your knots hold up? no substitute for doing your own experiments!
My own albrights vary depending on how good a job I do tightening them down,
I don't consistently moisten, etc. never the same twice,  

Actually I don't fish spectra for tuna, well, except, on some 50# troll rods.  Spectra is a pain when you have multiple hookups and you're doing the tuna dance with 4 of your best friends.  Spectra will splice though any other rigging like butter.

I hear ya Molbasser.  I think 12 can handle 1 fish just fine.  However,  I'm lazy and I don't always retie.  After a couple fish the leader is toast on 12 but can stand a couple more on 20#.  However, with 12 I find I lose more rigs to snags than I do with 20.  The 20 gives me that extra bit to free them.

jmairey, I have an idea.  Let's get a 6 pack of beer and then tie some spectra-mono knots back to back to back and have a tug-o-war and see which breaks first.  We can do spectra/uni-to-uni/mono/albright/spectra/bimini/yukatan/mono/palomar/swivel/palomar/spectra

-Allen

jmairey, I have an idea.  Let's get a 6 pack of beer and then tie some spectra-mono knots back to back to back and have a tug-o-war and see which breaks first.  We can do spectra/uni-to-uni/mono/albright/spectra/bimini/yukatan/mono/palomar/swivel/palomar/spectra

-Allen

I'm LIKING this idea!!

Allen, I would rather lose jigs than have to cut line.  I've fished 12# leaders for calicos all day with minimal retying.  Maybe the rockfish are more abusive up north.....

I'm quite looking forward to this upcoming season.  I hope I can keep the seasicknes in check.

MolBasser

Think lings man.  These aint no wussie southern calicos!

I've never had to cut 20# anything.  Never had a too much problems breaking off 20#.

-Allen

12# leader blingcod



Note the jig in his mouth, teeth were away from the line pretty well.

Of course, it is a little SoCal ling, not a NorCal lingzilla.....

MolBasser

Awww ... look at the baby lingcod.     Come on man.  Think bigger lingcod inhaling your jig and wreaking havock on your leader.

-Allen

if mol is targetting the capitola kelp, the so-cal methods will work great I think. it's pretty so-cal in those kelp beds. There are a pile of those
23.99" lings in there. I think it is 15 to 40 feet deep, no more?

Allen, all experiments are better with beer,  .  maybe we should get a spool of 20lb spectra and ncka can have a
spectra to mono knot tying challenge? winner gets to keep the spool, 

J

Hey, that ling went 24.01!! 

[smack talk voice]I guess I will just have to show you guys how it is done with finesse[/smack talk voice]

Should be fun.  My goal is to coax a 10# cab out of the kelp.

MolBasser

Spectra is a pain when you have multiple hookups and you're doing the tuna dance with 4 of your best friends. Spectra will splice though any other rigging like butter.

Allen,
That sounds like a reason to use spectra and hit the freespool when your line touches theirs.  

Stuart