Photographing No-Take Species

The most important part of this discussion is the official ruling that ESA-listed fish can NOT be entered into the AOTY competition. All of the other stuff is debatable. This rule, however, is not debatable. Thanks for the clarification, Allen and the AOTY Committee.

Agreed!   

The most important part of this discussion is the official ruling that ESA-listed fish can NOT be entered into the AOTY competition. All of the other stuff is debatable. This rule, however, is not debatable. Thanks for the clarification, Allen and the AOTY Committee.

Agreed!   

+1000! 

The most important part of this discussion is the official ruling that ESA-listed fish can NOT be entered into the AOTY competition. All of the other stuff is debatable. This rule, however, is not debatable. Thanks for the clarification, Allen and the AOTY Committee.

This is what people wanted and I truly believe it's for the best.
My only regret is that this wasn't made crystal clear before Jan 1st and two nice fish got pulled.
Although I was not on the AOTY Committee at that time I still will take some responsibility.
So again I'm very sorry.....
and if you guys want to bash or be mad at someone feel free to take it out on me.
I can take it. 

Jim, no need to bash you, nor Eric. Both of you are wonderful people and are both greatly respected Thank you and to the rest of the AOTY committee. I appreciate all the work and effort that the committee is doing

I'm just glad that the AOTY rules have been established!

I'm glad to have brought the issue to the forefront, and it's important that everyone know that wild steelhead have been posted (out of the water) each and every year of AOTY.

It also very important to know that some have learned to care about the fish and friends they say they care about  and some haven't.

I know sometimes Carrie Wilson's column isn't perfect... guess she's only human... but it seems like she quotes wardens pretty regularly in her answers. I wouldn't put it on Carrie... more likely, the wardens are not in agreement. I know I've heard conflicting stuff from vairous fish cops... its not like hearing from enforcement is necessarily any better. I also remember last year some idiot hooked a monster bsb from a pier and dragged it on the beach and posed for pictures. Fishermen there (who knew the regs) were outraged - I think a warden actually caught up with that guy. Don't know about steelhead, though - Nate

I saw that too - definitely not at all consistent with what DFG told me about wild steelhead (a local warden says holding one out of the water for a photo is not illegal).  Also, Black Sea Bass aren't part of an open, catch and release fishery.  I guess we can all find info to support our side, too bad this info isn't from the enforcment side and has to do with a fish that would never be on AOTY.

Why does a pic of a fish that I caught and released, w/o harm or any further trauma than being fought to the boatside, have to be used as an example? The only thing it touched was the wet trough, it just slid on as the trough was in the water, and then tilted onto my lap for a lightning-quick pic. If they start to flop, see ya', no pic this time. I care for these fish and know how to release them unharmed.
None of you have ever seen me release a wild steelhead. Witness it, then judge.
Bull$h!t! So it was out of the water, maybe a foot? Take into account that it was caught in about 5' of water, so no baro-trauma.
That they are now no longer counted because of ESA is fine, just don't bring up something out of the past. It was okay then, and very few of the fish I released were hurt.
Again, complete crap! It's one reason why I'm not doing AOTY anymore. You guys have taken the fun out of it. I'm going back to fishing for myself. I don't need to puff my chest for anyone.

Juan, I removed the attached pics.  It wasn't even clear in them weather the pics were wild fish or not, so I'm not sure what relevance they had.

-Allen

Why does a pic of a fish that I caught and released, w/o harm or any further trauma than being fought to the boatside, have to be used as an example?

Because I'd pointed out how wild steelies have been in AOTY for years.  I didn't put your name on it, and anyone can go look at the past AOTY stats and see this.

Bull$h!t! So it was out of the water, maybe a foot?

Sounds alot like my reaction to the rules being changed.

Bottom line, remember:  I'm fine with the rule change; it's the continued rhetoric that I broke the law that bothers me.

None of you have ever seen me release a wild steelhead. Witness it, then judge.

That is absolutely correct sir and it sounds like an invite, when is the best time to see such a feat and what tackle should I bring?   

it's the continued rhetoric that I broke the law that bothers me.

I've only met you once, Eric. It was obvious you are a criminal ... hardened even. 

Passionate people doing things they love, in an environment they love with confusing laws governing what's allowed. We're bound to get our wires crossed on occasion.

It was good for Allen to make the AOTY rule clear, and I, for one, respect your good natured acceptance of it.

Let's fish ...

Just some general comments.  The ESA is a federal law and as far as I know the Giant Black Sea bass is not a federally list endngered species.  It is however a California state protected species and take is managed by the state.  There are two classifications of protection under the ESA, threatened and endangered.  You can not take an endangered species but under certain regulations usually an agreement between the federal and state agencies, you can take threatened species.  Lahontan cutthroat trout is an example of an ESA listed threatened species that is managed as a fishery by the states of CA, NV and OR.  Most salmon and steelhead that are listed as ESA species are usually listed as threatened and managed by state agencies (with cooperation from the feds) but those that are listed as endangered are managed by the feds with states maybe adding added protection measures.

Just some general comments.  The ESA is a federal law and as far as I know the Giant Black Sea bass is not a federally list endngered species.  It is however a California state protected species and take is managed by the state.  There are two classifications of protection under the ESA, threatened and endangered.  You can not take an endangered species but under certain regulations usually an agreement between the federal and state agencies, you can take threatened species.  Lahontan cutthroat trout is an example of an ESA listed threatened species that is managed as a fishery by the states of CA, NV and OR.  Most salmon and steelhead that are listed as ESA species are usually listed as threatened and managed by state agencies (with cooperation from the feds) but those that are listed as endangered are managed by the feds with states maybe adding added protection measures.

Great info here - thanks for posting this.  I can now be used in the future as an example of what not to do with a Lahontan Cutthroat, as I entered one in AOTY last year, not even knowing about its status.  I'm fine with that - it adds to all of our learnings, and hopefully the fish benefit from all of this in the long run - at least in terms of how NCKA members handle them. 

Great summary, Chub.  I like how you roll.  I'm really unfamiliar with environmental practice, but this $hitstorm over AOTY piques my interest.  Maybe a good topic to write an article for publication.

I'm no lawyer, but ...

Al, consider yourself fortunate LOL   

Great summary, Chub.  I like how you roll.  I'm really unfamiliar with environmental practice, but this $hitstorm over AOTY piques my interest.  Maybe a good topic to write an article for publication.

I'm no lawyer, but ...

Al, consider yourself fortunate LOL   

I'll leave the lawyering to you, and just be the geek that I am