Lure speed question?

Hello folks Just a quick question here for our trout expert. How
do you know how deep your lure is in the water if you are going about
.7 mile an hour? For instance, the J7 Rapala that said 4-6 depth. Would
the lure go deeper if you speed up more or if you slow down? I tried doing my research on line but I can't seem to get the answer I'm looking for. I greatly appreciate any tips you can give. Thanks in advance.

Jedmo

Hey Jed, I struggle with accurate depths myself and never really know what depth im running at.  But since the J7's are floating lures, and only dive when you retrieve/troll them it leads me to believe faster is deeper.  BUT length of line out, angle of rod, line weight, etc all play into it too.  Oh, one way to tell your running depth is to move into shallower water and see if you start snagging bottom at your running depth   

After spending well over $100 dollars worth of lures, I need to start catching fish
to justify all these expenses.

Jedmo

like he said:
Oh, one way to tell your running depth is to move into shallower water and see if you start snagging bottom at your running depth 

Depth is gonna be determined by the bill angle/size, they're really not gonna run deeper than the box says without adding weight. 

speed = the pros say about 2 - 3 mph on the trout troll.

they also say bigger lures= faster speed

Shimano tekota 300 line counter + long liner. Its not a cheap setup but its as close as it gets to using a downrigger on your yak.

The jointed Rapalas are very buoyant, and never seem to go down very far.  They always just shoot right to the surface if you slow down too much.  I know they're not as popular, but I prefer the broken-back Rebels over broken-back Rapalas.  The action isn't as tight and "frenzied" as it is on a broken-back Rapala, and they're not as buoyant so they'll go just a little deeper.  Don't be turned off by the cheap pricetag and plastic construction of a broken-back Rebel.  They can work great on trout.

Excellent Question Jed,
The tool I use while pulling bait, spoons, spinners or any non diving lure is the Davis Fishseeker diving device.

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=00512

It eliminates the need for a down rigger and has less drag as well.
It is adjustable from 5 to 80 ft., and is fairly accurate using the included depth chart.
They do not recommend using it with diving lures like rapallas, and I have not tried that.
I use 20 lb. braid for my main line,(no line stretch)
 a barrel swivel to attach the diving device,
 another barrel swivel, then 2-3 ft. of mono to a sling blade dodger or flashers(optional),
 then 2-3 ft. mono to my lure of choice.

When trolling I will run 2 of these set-ups, one on each side of the kayak (2 rod stamp)
Sometimes I run both at the same depth, sometimes one deeper than the other

I have caught Trout, Landlocked Kings and Kokanee salmon using this set-up,
I even used this rig at GS 4 pulling chovies for salmon, no salmon love, but a nice black hit it

When pulling diving lures like rapallas it's more of a guessing game, if I'm not top lining and want to get deeper than 8-10 feet I'll add a egg sinker on a 6-8 lb. main line, a small bead, swivel, then 3-4 ft. of leader for the rapalla.
I let a lot of line out at least 80-100 ft. and troll just fast enough to get the rod tip wiggling from the action of the lure.

Like Al said, There are a lot of variables trolling diving lures, but if your pulling spoons, spinners or bait try the Fishseeker
diving device then you will know how deep you are

Good luck on the trout quest, most of all HAVE FUN
Tad
 

Tad's setup is pretty dialed in, a minimal amount of gear to get you're targeted strike zone...I'll be rigging up a similar setup in the next few weeks. 

Another technique to determine depth is to have a buddy drop back and keep an eye on your lure.  I came up on a buddy who was toplining a white Cripplelure about 100' back, I was able to paddle right alongside the lure which was running about 8' down. 

like he said:
Oh, one way to tell your running depth is to move into shallower water and see if you start snagging bottom at your running depth

Using this exact technique over weed/snag free bottoms at Del Valle I've figured out that my J-7's dive to about 6' while trolling at ~1.5mph 50' back on 8lb braid with a 10' 6lb flouro leader.

like he said:
Oh, one way to tell your running depth is to move into shallower water and see if you start snagging bottom at your running depth

Using this exact technique over weed/snag free bottoms at Del Valle I've figured out that my J-7's dive to about 6' while trolling at ~1.5mph 50' back on 8lb braid with a 10' 6lb flouro leader.

Jed

That is what I have found for the J7 also, 6' depth. Diving depth of a floating or suspending diving plug is a function of lure speed, line diameter, line density and set back distance. Plugs dive deeper with spectra because on line diameter and fluorocarbon because of density. The floating and suspending  plugs dive deeper with increased speed. I am not sure if that is true for sinking plugs. The setback distance also changes diving depth. For deep diving plugs such as the Rapala Tail Dancer, a 50-100' setback may be required to achieve maximum depth. Using 8# fluorocarbon line, 75-100' setback and boat speed of 1.5-2.5 MPH, I have found that all Rapalas dive to their specified maximum depth and sometimes an additional 1-2 feet. Here are the specs for some of my favorite Rapalas...

Rapala Model         Description                       Good Colors                     Diving Depth
Original Floater F5         2”,  1/16 oz , #10 hooks       Silver, Gold, Rainbow     3-5’
Original Floater F7         2 ¾" 1/8 oz, #7 hooks        Firetiger, Rainbow, Brook     3-5’
X-Rap XR-6         2 ½”, 1/8  oz,  #10 hooks        Silver, Gold                     3-5’ (rattling/suspending)
X-Rap XR-8         3 1/8”, 1/4  oz,  #6 /7 hooks  Silver, Rainbow                     3-5’ (rattling/suspending)
Jointed J7                         2 ¾”, 1/8 oz, #6 hooks        Firetiger, Rainbow, Brook     4-6’
Jointed J9                         3 ½”,  1/4 oz,  #5 hooks        Silver, Rainbow                     5-7’
Shad Rap SR5         2”, 3/16 oz,  #6 hooks        Shad, Bleeding Olive, Perch  4-9’
Jointed Shad Rap JSR5  2”,  1/4 oz, #6 /7 hooks        Silver Shad, Blue Shad     6-13’ (rattling/suspending)
Tail Dancer TD7         2 ¾”,  5/16 oz, #5 hooks        Shad                                     9-12’ (rattling)
Deep Tail Dancer TDD7  2 ¾”,  5/16 oz, #5 hooks        Shad, Rainbow                     15’ (rattling)
Deep Tail Dancer TDD9  3 ½”, 7/16 oz, #3 hooks        Shad, Rainbow                     20’ (rattling)

I included this table not to promote these lures but as a reference since it is sometimes hard to remember diving depth, hook size etc. Especially for a senior citizen like myself. 

Scott

Scott, thanks for that awesome list!!!  I've been keeping the boxes, or taking pictures of them to try and remember the depth ranges  Started writing it on the plano boxes as well as the under belly of some of the lures  

So, what about things like kastmasters?  Any tips on targeting depths with them, without a DR?

Thanks for all your help and tips fellas. Now all I need is to find a place to fish where I can get these trout to bite. Tad, I like that rig you shared with
us all. I hope the local tackle shop around here  will have it.

Jedmo

Thanks for all your help and tips fellas. Now all I need is to find a place to fish where I can get these trout to bite. Tad, I like that rig you shared with
us all. I hope the local tackle shop around here  will have it.

Jedmo

Jed, San PAblo is opening soon dont worry you will get your hands on those trout soon