Waders of death?

1.5 hours in 50 degree water with FJ and a dry top? On a windy day with your kayak being blown out to sea? As I was sitting on the hook in SPB yesterday I was thinking about going in. Oh it looked so inviting, That cold miserable death by drowning after being hypothermic for a half hour. Lets not forget that a person died in Tomales Bay last year while just being in the water for 30 minutes.  Some dudes wear board shorts on the open ocean. I am with SteveS. Lets see someone with the wader preference eagerly depart from the safety of the kayak and swim with current for a half hour. Then I will tow your ass to shore where the paramedics will be there awating you. Ric Burnleys test was a farce and we all know it. As far as a quick dunking is concerned he was good. Maybe thats all he was trying to prove. Just a quick dunking. Like a fucking donut.

Swimming in cold water for 30 minutes is one thing and we all know that the cold will demolish just about anyone. I think Steve's test is more a test of getting to land from a dumped yak. For a test like this a PB would be a must. Even getting out of the water back on to the kayak would mean that the swimmer is wet and cold and unable to heat themselves back up in the wet clothes.

-Brian G

Jeffrm, what's your take on waders in the river?

If I remember correctly, when we flipped our boats on the Stani in 2007 and I nearly got strained in that tree, you were wearing waders and you had to drain them out after the swim.  Did you feel like you were about to meet your doom?

I'm not recommending anyone follow anyone else's advice about waders, just want to hear Jeff's POV

.......I'm not recommending anyone follow anyone else's advice about waders, just want to hear Jeff's POV

;D
Disclaimer noted. I had felt a bit better about using waders on the 'yak after Jim Sammons' video, but the new video and this discussion have raised some excellent points, additional gear needed and maybe some go and no-go scenarios.

Dave W's report was interesting,too, I think lakes, calm bays and lower flow  waterways may be my limit for waders on the 'yak-I never have used them in swell or swift conditions. Oh, and then there are the rivers I wade in...

I'm always going to try to get the truth out there regarding waders.

And those that wear them will always feel compelled to come on the internet and show off how cool they are wearing them on the open ocean holding a nice fish. I know this. I accept this. 

But then someday when a new kayak angler dies of hypothermia because they saw that picture, went out and got them some waders, and didn't have the experience to not go out on the ocean or bay in poor conditions then.....maybe just then all of these people that continually feel the need to give testimonials to the fact that "I wear waders and I've never had a problem" will feel the tiniest bit of remorse for their callousness.

Everybody that knows me knows I love to joke around but not about safety especially as it pertains to new kayak anglers. Guys with tons of OTW experience can 'get away with it' whatever 'it' is. But new kayak anglers might not. Why can't you guys see this and do the right thing, keep your waders in the proverbial closet, instead of parading them around like a giant coming out party.

NOBODY ASKED SO DON'T FOKING TELL!   

You wanna wear em? Stay in the closet bro and thanks a bunch! 

Jim,

I look at it like this:  When I paddle out wearing my wader set-up, I'm a friggin dead man if I get separated from my boat for any length of time.............So I don't do that.  The only time that I've had to swim for my boat was in baja where I was so "safe feeling" I let down my guard and turned over the boat in a big wind.  The reason I was so "safe feeling" was the water was warm.  Yes, i had to swim about a quarter of a mile.

When people think they're totally safe is when they're the most vulnerable because they're over confident.

I'm not really concerned with what other people do because i post pictures of me wearing waders while kayak fishing.  That's their business. 

I dunno, we're all adults here.  Do what you want.

Edit:  I toned it down a bit from the original.

I'm not really concerned with what other people do because i post pictures of me wearing waders while kayak fishing.  That's their business.  Maybe you could be the site safety censor and photoshop all pics of dudes wearing waders while fishing?  Like Big Brother of NCKA.

I dunno, we're all adults here.  Do what you want.

This.

Jim if you want to go start (another) Anti-Wader Thread then I will respectfully stay out of it...but you can't expect to come into this thread, (started by another member), post your opinions and then try to tell everybody who doesn't agree with you to keep their mouths shut.

I love ya bro, but that ain't how it works....especially since nobody in this thread is disagreeing with you. Those of us that do wear waders know the risks and know our limits. Those that want to wear waders damn sure better know the risks and know their limits.

Whoa!  What a response.  I feel like Antoine Dodson, “Hide your wife, Hide your kids.”  This experiment was never intended to see if I could drown myself.  It was only intended to see how much water I would take on in each situation.  It was never intended as an endorsement for wearing waders in a kayak.  Just the opposite.  I was only in for a few seconds and you can see how much water I took on.  Still, we were surprised that it wasn’t worse.  Neoprene waders would be even safer.  In a milder situation, I would have probably played around like a water nymph.  But the experience has changed my behavior.  Just yesterday, before I launched from the beach to chase striper, I pulled on my dry top and cinched down the belts.  The weather was beautiful on shore but as soon as I paddled 3 miles offshore, and got into the fish, the wind started to blow.  It was long paddle back to the beach with a 20 knot southwest blowing 38 degree water in my face.  I ended up a mile and a half north of my launch.  That video was running through my head the whole time.   Dry top, waders, belts, VHF, GPS, strobe light, waterproof celly, but If one of the choppy whitecaps had succeeded in rolling me overboard, and I lost my boat or my paddle, I would have been in big trouble – no matter what I was wearing.  The fact is kayak fishing can be dangerous.  Taking precautions makes it less so, but in some cases no number of precautions will protect you from that bitch, Mother Nature. 

Slightly off-topic: Anytime you are fishing at anchor in a current;please leave at least 15ft of floating yellow nylon line on the foredeck with one end attached to the bow. The line should be just sitting on deck so when you flip over,the line falls in the water and you might be able to grab the line before you get sucked away from your boat.

Whoa!  What a response.  I feel like Antoine Dodson, “Hide your wife, Hide your kids.”  This experiment was never intended to see if I could drown myself.  It was only intended to see how much water I would take on in each situation.  It was never intended as an endorsement for wearing waders in a kayak.  Just the opposite.  I was only in for a few seconds and you can see how much water I took on.  Still, we were surprised that it wasn’t worse.  Neoprene waders would be even safer.  In a milder situation, I would have probably played around like a water nymph.  But the experience has changed my behavior.  Just yesterday, before I launched from the beach to chase striper, I pulled on my dry top and cinched down the belts.  The weather was beautiful on shore but as soon as I paddled 3 miles offshore, and got into the fish, the wind started to blow.  It was long paddle back to the beach with a 20 knot southwest blowing 38 degree water in my face.  I ended up a mile and a half north of my launch.  That video was running through my head the whole time.   Dry top, waders, belts, VHF, GPS, strobe light, waterproof celly, but If one of the choppy whitecaps had succeeded in rolling me overboard, and I lost my boat or my paddle, I would have been in big trouble – no matter what I was wearing.  The fact is kayak fishing can be dangerous.  Taking precautions makes it less so, but in some cases no number of precautions will protect you from that bitch, Mother Nature.

Hey, what do you know! He didn't sign his name, but that's Ric Burnley folks, the video wader test monkey. He finally passed the intelligence test needed to get on the site.

I can kid 'cause we go back a ways, and because Ric's a stand-up guy and definitely hardcore. I hope you'll welcome him.

Hey Ric, did you hook up?

Paul titled the thread 'Waders of Death?'. Why do you think he did this? I don't know but my guess is that with the growing popularity of the sport it's only a matter of time before someone wearing waders needlessly dies from hypothermia or drowning.

Dave, as a surfer I'm sure you've seen plenty of poorly equipped people paddling out into the line up. The worst I've seen was a dude wearing boardshorts paddling an air mattress into a lull between 6ft waves at **. The water temp was as usual around 52*. My buddy & I wearing our full suits with booties, gloves, and hoods just looked at each other and shook our heads. Of course the next wave sucked him over the falls, held him under water, and them spit him out sans the mattress. He then had a long swim back to the beach and when he got there he was shivering uncontrolably. Luckily he had two friends who helped him away. What a stupid stunt. I'm sorry but when I see someone out on the bay or ocean and I happen to notice they are wearing waders I don't say anything but I feel the same way as when I saw the guy with the boardshorts and air mattress.

Yes I understand you guys agree that waders are more dangerous but apparently not so dangerous that you would consider not wearing them any more. I would feel very badly if anything happened to any NCKA bros. My message is to discourage new kayak anglers from purchasing them for kayak fishing and I will continue to do so. I'm sorry you all have taken offense but at the same time I think about what will happen if new people read thru discussions like this and start counting up how many guys are actually wearing waders and how they are claimed to be 'more comfortable'. I think that is another fallacy but since I have never owned a pair I don't know. For the record I am snug as a bug in a rug in my FJ and Tempest pants. And I am most definitely safer. Although again a full wetsuit or drysuit would be even safer. But waders and no wetsuit? 

This latest test by Fishcrazy shows that waders and kayakfishing are a very poor fit at best. I wish someone in the kayak fishing industry would have the balls to conclusively say waders are a no no when there are so many safer choices out there to purchase & use. All you guys that are sponsored by Kokatat sure are quiet.  I would have thought that people from companies such as NRS and Kokatat would be the first to jump into these kinds of discussions. jim

I also don't believe that waders are nearly as safe as a dry suit, however when you say you wear the Kokatat pants (very comfortable) you have to remember that they are nothing more than waist high waders. the truth is if you are going to wear anything over a wet suit it should have an open foot to allow the water to drain.
Anything that has a water tight bottom needs to have a water tight top as well or it will eventually cause the same situation as waders.
Not trying to fuel debate just trying to make sure the facts are correct.

see Ya soon,
Eric / Yakhopper

Eric, you are correct and thanks for making that clear about the tempest pants when worn alone w/o the matching jacket. I rely on my FJ worn underneath the tempests to get me back to the beach. If the tempest pants took on water and were slowing me down they would get ditched in the water since once in the water they're not serving any purpose anyway. I only use them to keep my wetsuit dry while I'm fishing. When conditions warrant it, surf launch/diving/etc, I wear only my thicker surfing wetsuit and no tempest. I doubt anyone wearing only waders would ditch them and swim commando if they filled up while swimming. At that point they would be toast. But with dry pants over a wetsuit then it's an option. jim

First off, Fishcrazy, Welcome to NCKA. I hope you drop by from time to time and repost some of your E Coast fish porn.

when you say you wear the Kokatat pants (very comfortable) you have to remember that they are nothing more than waist high waders.

Eric, thanx for pointing this out. I would like to see Kokatat/salesmen pointing this out to customers. Without a dry top they take on water. I found this out the hard way.  By the time youve bought a dry top and Tempest pants youre pretty close to the price of a drysuit.

In South Africa, where paddelski/waveskiing is almost as popular as surfing, there is another option. Local wetsuit manufacturers make models that are essentially a fullsuit, but instead of neoprene arms they have drysuit arms with wrist gaskets (fj cut around the shoulders). fairly safe. Ive seen guys do long swims through big surf with these.

Whoa!  What a response.  I feel like Antoine Dodson, “Hide your wife, Hide your kids.”  This experiment was never intended to see if I could drown myself.  It was only intended to see how much water I would take on in each situation.  It was never intended as an endorsement for wearing waders in a kayak.  Just the opposite.  I was only in for a few seconds and you can see how much water I took on.  Still, we were surprised that it wasn’t worse.  Neoprene waders would be even safer.  In a milder situation, I would have probably played around like a water nymph.  But the experience has changed my behavior.  Just yesterday, before I launched from the beach to chase striper, I pulled on my dry top and cinched down the belts.  The weather was beautiful on shore but as soon as I paddled 3 miles offshore, and got into the fish, the wind started to blow.  It was long paddle back to the beach with a 20 knot southwest blowing 38 degree water in my face.  I ended up a mile and a half north of my launch.  That video was running through my head the whole time.   Dry top, waders, belts, VHF, GPS, strobe light, waterproof celly, but If one of the choppy whitecaps had succeeded in rolling me overboard, and I lost my boat or my paddle, I would have been in big trouble – no matter what I was wearing.  The fact is kayak fishing can be dangerous.  Taking precautions makes it less so, but in some cases no number of precautions will protect you from that bitch, Mother Nature.

Straight from the horses mouth......now run and tell that homeboy!




Having had my share of "wholy **** I'm gonna die moments," I can say that there is a point in every bad situation where you are either overwhelmingly thankful that you took the necessary precautions that enable you to save your ***.......or cursing yourself while praying for divine intervention.  Having experienced the latter....I try my best to be in the first category.  Its a wet suit or fj for me.



and for all the guys with the itchy syndrome.....stop peeing in your suit and all will be cool

I've been watching this thread ... so I thought it time to chime in with my own "evolution".

I started out wearing a shorty FJ with splash top, mainly because I had one lying around.  I quickly graduated to a full length FJ with splash top.  At some point made the switch to waders with splash top, but never felt entirely right about it.  Started wearing my shorty FJ under my waders.  And finally made the move to a full drysuit (yes, latex seals at the neck and wrist).  But I also now have a full tempest outfit.

All have their weaknesses.  I don't think there is a 100% bulletproof solution.  What is key is understanding when your exposure to those weaknesses is greater than the risk you are willing to take.  Also key is knowing how to mitigate against those weaknesses.  And of course all that is somehow balanced against comfort.  Knowledge is important.

I don't think we can come out of this discussion with a "do this and you'll be safe" recommendation, just like I don't think we can come out of this discussion with a "do this and you're fucked" recommendation.  But hey, we're having the discussion!!!

-Allen