The Ditch Scenario

I've seen a SIK paddled through rough surf with a rescued swimmer on the stern. Actually I watched it multiple times as there was chaos in the surf zone that day (I was collecting the yardsale debris) so yeah, it can be done.

I think doing this successfully depends on how the "rescue" kayak is set up. If the rescue yak is pushing the limits of its payload initially, has lots of holes drilled in it for accessories,  and doesn't have additional flotation.....it might not work and might cause bubbles to come out of the rod holders. It would just depend on how well the rescue boat was set up.

I'd say internal flotation is something that most of our bulkhead-less SOT kayaks could use, and that's my 2c.

Fins are not  bad idea.  Goggles, too, would be helpful in a swim, to see where you're going.

Last thing I'd want to do in bad weather is open a hatch, tho.

If I were to have a ditch bag it would be things that enabled me to get to shore, rather than things to call in help.

Even better than fins, take along an extra kayak for all the safety gear

I fished in a ditch once. There were many turtles. I like turtles.

Thornley, you paddle a kayak w/out a tankwell because...you don't want to be burdened by somebody whose drowning?
Bob, sounds like you need to cap those flush-mount rod holders.
Blue, what might be right for you, may not be right for others. 
Redwoodfox, stop piggy-backing mythical dudes lol!
Mooch, stop being so logical. It's bad for the internet.

I bring a ditch bag w/me every time I go out in the ocean. And if somebody needs help, I will let them use my gear or ride in my tankwell. But, after riding in a tankwell myself (diving), I have to admit...it's not as fun as it looks.   :~)

Some people have the ditch bag attached to them in some way. The bottom line is that you want the critical survival stuff on your PFD or attached to you in some way.

Please explain where this 'bag' is going to be when you're swimming? Also what kind of 'bag' exactly = size & type.
The way I look at it my pfd is going to be slowing me down plenty already but I'm not going to ditch the pfd. So what kind of 'bag' and where can it attach to me without slowing me down further. This seems to be crucial info and I can't imagine how it would work. There's no way I'm going to drag a dry bag behind me with a rope. Not into trolling for Whitey with me being the bait! Or is the idea to scarf up all the granola bars and pound down the water before you embark on the long swim and then just ditch the ditch bag?

 I guess I could just bust out the smartphone and do the first ITW report while hypothermia takes it's toll.....

Thornley I have a scupper pro TW and couldnt imagine having some 200 lb dude on the back while I am trying to make headway and keep the son-of a bitch upright. You would be better off towing an individual. How many guys have you rescued this way to give advice like that?

I fished in a ditch once. There were many turtles. I like turtles.

Thornley, you paddle a kayak w/out a tankwell because...you don't want to be burdened by somebody whose drowning?
Bob, sounds like you need to cap those flush-mount rod holders.
Blue, what might be right for you, may not be right for others. 
Redwoodfox, stop piggy-backing mythical dudes lol!
Mooch, stop being so logical. It's bad for the internet.

I bring a ditch bag w/me every time I go out in the ocean. And if somebody needs help, I will let them use my gear or ride in my tankwell. But, after riding in a tankwell myself (diving), I have to admit...it's not as fun as it looks.   :~)

You are right about capping my flush mount rod holders.  They were both damaged and sealed with marine goop a year before I used the same kayak as a rescue boat.  Even still, I love that Tarpon 160 and I am a light guy of 150 lbs.  My good friend who needed help is about 200lbs.  Together with both our weights, island fishing gear, and water from the foul weather, we were sinking when he tried to mount me.  
We were taking wind waves and swell over the deck too. It was so romantic.     
I could not talk on the radio because I was paddleing for both our lives and he had to just hold on to the back of my seat and kick like hell. (Fins would have been money.)  There was no safe beach to land on and the guys that were with us barely got a mayday response on 16. When they did, it was via relay from an anchored boat to the Coast Guard miles away.  He was in the water for a long time before we got the calvery over head and next to us.  What a sight to behold!
As far as totally ditching, there are so many factors to consider.
The Coast Guard says, stay with your boat because you can be spotted more easily.

I like the fin idea and GB2's idea of a bag for emergencies. A radio is only good if someone can hear the thing. I saw a guy chasing his ab tube once as it was being blown away. This dude swam and swam then he looked up to saee just how far offshore he had  gone and quickly said fuck the tube and started hauling ass back to shore. Having the bag doesnt neccesarily mean that you are going to be on the ocean either. what if you are in the sierras and its cold and windy. Maybe starting to snow.  You decide to make for shore to seek shelter and start a fire. The bag with all the items Scott has listed would possibly become a life saver.

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,6020.0.html

Well.....hmmm.....sierra lakes.....ahhhh.....baaaa.....
 A REAL BAG WOULD HAVE THE F****N BEER IN IT RIGHT? 

Thornley, you paddle a kayak w/out a tankwell because...you don't want to be burdened by somebody whose drowning?

Exactly wrong.  One of the reasons I paddle a DH boat, is for the extra flotation on the stern, SPECIFICALLY FOR a swimmer. How did you come up with your statement above?

Thornley I have a scupper pro TW and couldnt imagine having some 200 lb dude on the back while I am trying to make headway and keep the son-of a bitch upright. You would be better off towing an individual. How many guys have you rescued this way to give advice like that?

Surfing Marmot and I practiced this back in 2006 or so? Just after Frankfishing went Frankswimming. We figured out we'd have to lose the crate as step one. This was in flat water, but extrapolating from the practice both of us had done with SIKs in the open ocean, it seemed doable  and a) faster and b) warmer than towing a swimmer. Keeping the boat upright wasn't the problem, as the CG was still pretty low. The issue was that a good chunk of the bow was out of the water due to the extremely aft CG. Worst case scenario, we'd both end up wet and re-evaluate.

However, it was this practice session that prompted me to go to the 160 DH.

Having the bag doesnt neccesarily mean that you are going to be on the ocean either. what if you are in the sierras and its cold and windy. Maybe starting to snow.  You decide to make for shore to seek shelter and start a fire. The bag with all the items Scott has listed would possibly become a life saver.

You know what else would be good in that situation? A tent and a sleeping bag. Not to mention a stove and some packages of ramen and a flask of Gran Marnier. But realistically, Option A would be to paddle your butt back home ASAP before the weather deteriorates. So are Options B-Y. Option Z is to make for shore and try and stick it out. And the first thing you're going to do is Shelter, Shelter, Shelter. Other than the emergency blanket (which is not a bad idea) where is Shelter addressed in Scott's list?  And if it's not on you, or you'd have to swim while holding a bag, well that turns it into convenience gear, not survival gear. Not that there's anything wrong with having a convenience bag, but at least call it that.

You are right about capping my flush mount rod holders.  They were both damaged and sealed with marine goop a year before I used the same kayak as a rescue boat.  Even still, I love that Tarpon 160 and I am a light guy of 150 lbs.  My good friend who needed help is about 200lbs.  Together with both our weights, island fishing gear, and water from the foul weather, we were sinking when he tried to mount me.  

Bob, the kayaks originators developed the piggyback rescue (even though a wet exit was considered fatal) how many thousands of years ago? Yet you are condemning this rescue based on your experience with a) a compromised hull b) the heavier person on stern, not in cockpit and c) not jettisoning useless weight (island tackle).  How objective is that?


The "other Scott's" ditch gear:

VFH, handheld backup GPS, handheld compass and knife on PFD. I'd be willing to part with any/all of these if I felt they were seriously compromising my ability to swim to shore.
Cell phone, lighter and cash in pockets inside of dry suit.

VFH, handheld backup GPS, handheld compass and knife on PFD. I'd be willing to part with any/all of these if I felt they were seriously compromising my ability to swim to shore.
Cell phone, lighter and cash in pockets inside of dry suit.

I'm probably a better swimmer than you (maybe ) and yet any/all of these would seriously compromise my ability to swim to shore.  High viscosity medium, exponential increase in drag... Just sayin'

If empirical observations are badly desired, wait until March when I'm back at Aquatic Park and I can run some deltas on with v. without swims

I've been following this with a lot of interest. Generally, I have a lot more fear of my Yak ditching me than the reverse.

So, if your yak is sinking, and for whatever reason you decide to leave it, I guess you could retrieve a bag from (where?) almost casually since the yak has an almost neutral(?) buoyancy in decent weather, more feverishly relative to how bad the conditions are. Even if you don't leave the yak, some items in Scott's list could be useful.

What seems more likely is you dump and your yak blows away. And thinking of it like that, Blue's short list seems like a very practical place to start, and build towards a more exotic catastrophe from there.

In reading the different lists of safety gear I am left with a "that's a lot of stuff" feeling. So I get the bag, but where are you guys storing it? So far I keep on my person a radio, two knives, and a compass. On the boat a spare paddle and pump stored atop the bow ... but I can see I have a ways to go.

Along those lines, and with the idea of rescuing someone else as well, is there such a thing as a small package inflatable? Maybe with a kitchen sink 

Ben

VFH, handheld backup GPS, handheld compass and knife on PFD. I'd be willing to part with any/all of these if I felt they were seriously compromising my ability to swim to shore.
Cell phone, lighter and cash in pockets inside of dry suit.

I'm probably a better swimmer than you (maybe ) and yet any/all of these would seriously compromise my ability to swim to shore.  High viscosity medium, exponential increase in drag... Just sayin'

If empirical observations are badly desired, wait until March when I'm back at Aquatic Park and I can run some deltas on with v. without swims

I'm certainly not a great swimmer,  but by the end of the typical summer I'm up to ~1800 yards in 36 minutes, swimming in the lake. Thats just with trunks and goggles. With a dry suit and PFD, in the ocean, I'm thinking an hour and a half to cover a mile? Crap, maybe more time than that even. Now isn't that depressing?

My ability to swim is already seriously compomised by the PFD and dry suit, but they'll stay on, thank you very much   I'm thinking the incremental increase in drag due to the above items in the PFD pockets is pretty small. But as I said, I'd chuck 'em if I felt like it would make a difference.  For instance, I wear NRS river boots when kayaking in the ocean. More than likely, removing them will be the first item of business if I'm in the water and have to swim.

As for empirical tests, heck, there's no time like the present, and might make for a good wakeup call for kayakers that never swim, or in my case, haven't done any swimming in three months.

Scott

You know what my #1 ditch scenario is?

getting dumped on anchor in ripping current, water temp is 48, I'm most likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/4 of a mile off rat rock.
Always goes through my head like this:
1) Got that wonderful nice fat oversize sturgeon on, up at the boat, and she does something crazy right at the end- maybe a tail slap, and i'm over.
2) I'm sitting watching the rod and some big a@@ log rides down the anchor line and whacks the yak...see above.

I figure either i'm totally clear of the yak, and my best bet is to probably try to hit Pt San Pedro or the Marin Islands as i'm whipping by- which would mean about a 1/2 mile swim and an hour of being "Steve-the-Bobber". If i'm tangled then hopefully i got a big breath before i got dragged under, can reach the knife and cut myself free.
(I try to keep my decks free from clutter to avoid this nightmare.)

#2 is dumped in nasty conditions and i watch the yak float away.  I like blue's advice there- bow line goes around my wrist from now on in those conditions.