Kayak Apparel And Falling Out

My biggest concern when I go fishing is what would happen should I fall off my kayak. I am not worried about getting back on. My concern is will I still be able to continue fishing depending on the clothing I am wearing. I have been in Tahoe in March when the launch was calm but ccccold. After an hour and a half the winds picked up like crazy. I had my 7mm wetsuit on and going against the wind the paddle back was a killer. The bow was flying high on the waves then diving under as the water was either flooding the deck or splashing over my head. I was not worried at all because I had my wetsuit on. I was warm and was not worried if I fell out or not. I would have been worried if I had something other than that on.
I have only fallen off one time while fishing. I was a rookie trying to maneuver on the deck. Quick in and out, no biggie.
My question is, How comfortable are you with your kayak apparel should you become drenched, whether it came from waves or falling out? How many times ( excluding launching and landing ) have you fallen off your kayak while fishing? Did it end your day of fishing?
I am thinking about converting to wearing something other than a wetsuit when I fish, but I sure love the security of it.

That's a great question and I'm sure you're going to get a LOT of opinions.

I've never fallen out of my kayak other than landing in surf.  That's not to say it'll never happen... it's always on my mind and something that I like to be prepared for.

The last outing was the first time I've ever worn anything other than a wetsuit and I have to say it was on my mind a lot.  I wore a pair of light breathable waders along with a belt and my splash top.  If I would have tipped over and fallen out, I'm sure I would have not been comfortable enough to finish the day fishing unless the weather was quite warm.  I would probably have gotten some water inside the waders and certainly under my splash top since it doesn't seal like a dry top. 

I'll always wear a wetsuit in the Ocean... no risk taking there.  In the Bay I'll probably continue with the waders unless the weather is looking suspect.  I'll likely wear my wetsuit the first time on my new kayak just so I'm absolutely certain it's as stable as my old one in these conditions.

I think the best combination for bays / lakes that I've seen is a pair of waist high breatheable waders (guide pants) along with a DRY TOP that has a double seal.  One seal goes inside the pants, then a belt, then the outer seal.  Dry, comfortable, and pretty darn well protected from water intrusion. 

I might just have to do a field test with my wader / splash top combo at the end of a fishing day sometime just to see how it would be to be in the water with that gear.  At least it would remove the questionmarks from my mind.

Erik

I have fallen out once, on a flat calm day on the bay. Trying to reach around behind me for bait, then in the middle I was thinking "This is how people fall out of kayaks" then boom I was out. Easy back in and I was wearing a wetsuit and fishing was not a problem. Wetsuits plus some type of wind protection are a killer combo for heating up and staying warm. I have 2 suits, a 3mil and a 1/2 mil. 1/2 mil is my lake/bay suit most of the time unless I am going in shorts only. Just cause the lake is not as cold as the ocean does not mean you are not nothing to die of hypothermia. Not many 98.6 degree lakes around here 

Ocean is always my 3mil and the survivability in that suit should be pretty high, at least a couple of hours. This is where a VHF and GPS on your person come in handy. If you lose the kayak for some reason you can at least radio your location to someone.

In the ocean or the bay, I'm always wearing a wetsuit just for the "fall in factor".  I wear a NRS Hyrdroskin farmer and I couldn't be happier...so happy we will stock them in 06.  Super comfortable, but not quite warm enough for cool and windy days like dino hunting on a bad day.  I throw splash pants over the top on those days for wind shear and you are plenty cozy.

On Mendo or similar lakes its splash pants and fleece if its cool, otherwise its swim trunks.

I could be considered an expert on falling out. That's what paddling a boat with a 23" beam will get you! Since I dive as much or more than I fish (always ocean), I've always just worn my full 1 piece 7 mil suit, peeled down to the waist. Lately I've thought of getting just a farmer John, but then I thought hmmm, maybe that's a compromise on safety. I figure if I ever lose the boat, I can hopefully don the whole suit to float around in. It used to be my excuse for a PFD since before getting a good one this year I hardly ever wore the rafting jacket I own. I erroneously rationalized that the wet suit was my PFD.
The nice thing about having the full suit is that I often will put it all the way on for those early morning summer (translate: "cool") Linda Mar bigger surf launches. I pack my Goretex in the drybag, then put it on after I'm past the breakers, nice and dry.
Two things I've noticed:
1) When I get tossed off the yak by a big swell, I don't get very wet. I seem to be back on the boat without even remembering doing it (getting rolled on the way in is definitely a wet underwater experience).
2) When I'm paddling around in the bigger water and wind, taking waves over the sides or bow, I'm getting about as wet as I do when I get knocked off
I think it's a good idea to practice "ditching and donning;"  when I bought my yak, I worried about flipping, so the very first time I took it out I practiced righting the boat and getting back on in deep water.

I ust got a farmer john 2mm for the lakes and warm days on the coast. To be honest I am paranoid of going in the ocean without a wet suit. Lakes only with shorts if the weather permits.
Was at Lake Mendo on Christmas Eve and had my farmer jon on. Water was cold and weather was questionable.
Went righ into a boil by the damn but got snagged up on drifting trees.....

Mendo is a mess right now.

I had a bad paddle earlier this year out of Moss.......the day started fine and went all to snot without me noticing.  I made it in okay but one of the things that had me seriously rattled was that my radio was questionable and that day I did not have it secured to me.  I was too busy to be able to change anythin on that day.

Santa brought me a submersible radio for Christmas.  We are completing it's tether for my PFD today........ .

As the others have said, I wear wetsuit and quality shirt and goretex paddle jacket when fishing on the ocean.  Well, except for that one day, a few years ago when it was 90 degrees plus on Monterey Bay and I just HAD to go out in shorts.  Interestingly, the splash had me cold and I was back in in less than an hour.

Pat

For the ocean or cold days on the lake I wear a
3mm NRS Farmer John
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47897288&parent_category_rn=4501480&vcat=REI_SSHP_PADDLING_TOC

And a
Mysterioso Nyloprene Long-Sleeve Top
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=12117501&parent_category_rn=4501480&vcat=REI_SSHP_PADDLING_TOC

If I get cold I put on a fleece top with my lightweight Frogg Toggs raingear in advantage timber.http://www.froggtoggs.com/camouflage.htm  (I keep this stuff in my fry bag)

I could not be cold wearing this stuff and I am always comfy.  The top I wear is VERY flexible and great for paddling.  If I fell out I am sure that I would stay warm even when wet.

I am thinking about converting to wearing something other than a wetsuit when I fish, but I sure love the security of it.

  Tote-I have a large and a x-large 3mm farmer john that you can try out some time if you would like.

That's a great question and I'm sure you're going to get a LOT of opinions.

I've never fallen out of my kayak other than landing in surf.  That's not to say it'll never happen... it's always on my mind and something that I like to be prepared for.

The last outing was the first time I've ever worn anything other than a wetsuit and I have to say it was on my mind a lot.  I wore a pair of light breathable waders along with a belt and my splash top.  If I would have tipped over and fallen out, I'm sure I would have not been comfortable enough to finish the day fishing unless the weather was quite warm.  I would probably have gotten some water inside the waders and certainly under my splash top since it doesn't seal like a dry top. 

I'll always wear a wetsuit in the Ocean... no risk taking there.  In the Bay I'll probably continue with the waders unless the weather is looking suspect.  I'll likely wear my wetsuit the first time on my new kayak just so I'm absolutely certain it's as stable as my old one in these conditions.

I think the best combination for bays / lakes that I've seen is a pair of waist high breatheable waders (guide pants) along with a DRY TOP that has a double seal.  One seal goes inside the pants, then a belt, then the outer seal.  Dry, comfortable, and pretty darn well protected from water intrusion. 

I might just have to do a field test with my wader / splash top combo at the end of a fishing day sometime just to see how it would be to be in the water with that gear.  At least it would remove the questionmarks from my mind.

Erik

I'm totally with Erik on this topic.

 I have in the passed wore a wet suite to Dive for Abs then fish on the way in at VannDann State Park.
I usually become too hot when just fishing with my wetSuite on. I purchased some mysterioso pants and
Nylon spray pants at R.E.I.
                                                                                                                Ernie
                                                                                                     

http://www.mysterioso.com/

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Search?vcat=REI_SEARCH&stat=7889&langId=-1&storeId=8000&query=spray+pants&x=0&y=0

that's the main problem with a wetsuit even on the ocean, you typically aren't wet enough
and get too hot.  so people are tempted not to wear one. sometimes I peel down the top
of my wetsuit myself.

but you can always jump in,  , to cool off. or pour a cup of water down the front.

the safety of a full wetsuit (with a hood) is probably 10/10 tho, whereas anything else
is probably 5/10. talking about the ocean and maybe the bay here, not sure of the bay,
and maybe even lake tahoe, it gets pretty nasty out there.

a farmer john is probably the right thing for comfort, but almost by definition it's not enough
for being in the water and not in the kayak.

if you think a farmer john is warm enough, try surfing (on a shortboard) for 90 minutes in it.
or dive for abs in it. you'll quickly find out it's not. it takes 20 minutes to swim a mile in a pool.
figure twice that to swim a mile to shore. I have done some open ocean swimming in biathlons
and it sucks, you can't see jack over the waves.

the real issue as blue says is that you fall out, it's windy, your kayak blows away and
you don't get to it in time. Then you have to swim to shore. If you don't have thermal
protection, you are going to die of hypothermia before you get to shore even with
a PFD.

I have a surfboard leash attached to the bow toggle on my yak.
it's usually attached to my paddle, but I am considering attaching it to my ankle
if it gets rough.  the yak would not blow away from you in that case.

granitedive, a wetsuit is not a replacement for a PFD, it is better, . you can get in
and out of the kayak a lot easier with it off! plus the floatation of a full wetsuit probably
exceeds the floatation of a PFD.  okay I'm not really arguing that one. Just taking the bait.

finally if you weigh less, you'll probably last a much shorter time. erik would probably outlast us all in a
hypothermia match. his modesty regarding his offensive-lineman build aside,
the volume to area ratio is the issue there, not the muscle/fat ratio
although I have noticed if I'm 10lbs heavier I last a bit longer before I get cold when surfing.

I've done some diving for abs and you right you do get cold very fast, I had a 5/7 on and after about 1 1/2 hrs. I was cold my two friends had the same thing they where freezing. pretty rough water that day hard to find.

I'm not sure I believe this but that Coast Guard Rescue class I went to the guy said with a 5/7 you could last up to 24hrs. off our coast. as cold as I was after 1 1/2 hrs. I'm not so sure about 24 but then like you said body weight and so on.

I leash my paddle to the yak and the plan is if I go over I hang on to the paddle and then I have the yak as well as the paddle  but the leash to my ankle to in real rough seas sounds like a very good idea.  thanks !

Get a wetsuit with a front zipper and use a farmer john with a top to go over it. Then you can remove the top and put it
on if you fall in. Also, keep a wind proof top handy, wetsuits are not good windbreakers.

I have fished and dove for abs, one problem that sneaks up on you is if you don't have enough food and water. If you
don't eat and drink over 4 hours you will get cold faster.

It's actually the nylon covering that holds water, and which evaporates in the wind that is the problem
with wind chill while wearing a wetsuit.

the neoprene in and of itself is windproof.

A windbreaker or foul weather jacket will fix that, but the alternative is a wetsuit with a lot of 'smoothie', raw neoprene on one
side and the nylon only on the inside.

This is also known as nylon-1 and nylon-2, where nylon-1 means it has nylon on one side of the
neoprene only and nylon-2 means it has nylon on both sides.

water runs right off the smooth neoprene, doesn't hang around to slowly evaporate. the wind chill
is greatly reduced in this case.

The more expensive surfer wetsuits have more smoothie, usually in big panels on the chest and back
and also often on the fore arms so that the paddling motion has less weight at the end of your arms.

surfers can't wear windbreakers, but they have the same issue with wind blowing, and having to paddle,
hence the smoothie.

However, I always get wetsuits that have nylon on the inside and outside everywhere
because seams always break faster with the nylon-1 suits. the nylon helps secure the seam.

There is some advantage for me because if I get hot, I can get the outside of the wetsuit wet and
the breeze will cool me down a bit without having to take off the wetsuit. it's the reverse of the windbreaker
idea.

GOwen, as noted elsewhere, neoprene wears out, the little bubbles in it burst over time, killing the insulating
(and flotation) value. Also fit of the wetsuit and leaks in seams contribute
to loss of insulating power.  So A fresh well-fitting 4 mil might out-insulate an old stiff ill-fitting 7 mil suit.

I agree with basilkies that a jacket and farmer john would let you get to shore even if something caused your
boat to sink, assuming you can side-stroke, doggy-paddle or drift in.
However, if you get separated from the boat, you might not get a chance to put that jacket on.

My thanks to Tote for starting this thread and to all of you that have contributed to it.

Every post topic has value and I read them all. But the subject of safety really gets my attention.
When I read about close calls that experienced kayakers have had it just reminds me how
vulnerable we all are. The wisdom shared here could very easily save someones butt , thanks.

                                                                                                              TomB