Official GWS Thread

J,
I wasn't there, nor am I the shark so I'm not gonna speculate on its intentions. What I do know is that a gw shark is capable of biting clean through a couple feet of skin/blubber/muscle and bone, if it wanted to a kill a plastic kayak it woulda done it.  I don't buy the bounced out oh his mouth scenario, too much coincidental "what if this happened," "that coulda happened." A GWS is designed to kill, I don't think it misses as much as the discovery channel makes it appear.  To me the most logical scenario is that it because there was no gaping holes in the boat it simply came in to investigate....the initial hit, however "soft" it may have been ejected the paddler, shark stuck around to gum on the yak.   

I think it tried to kill the kayak, but it hit it fast expecting a soft, squishy, and heavy thing and got a light, hard and bouncy thing. as a consequence the kayak did not stay in the mouth for a real hard initial crunch.

I think the shark would also know before it cut the bow clean off that it was not biting a seal.

Dan was pretty clear that the hit was hard, he got ejected to port and stern and had to paddle a few strokes back.

I bet they do miss a lot myself. I mean lining up on something way up on the surface and getting your 4000+ lbs of bulk up to ramming speed and nailing it is probably not that easy.

J

J,
I wasn't there, nor am I the shark so I'm not gonna speculate on its intentions. What I do know is that a gw shark is capable of biting clean through a couple feet of skin/blubber/muscle and bone, if it wanted to a kill a plastic kayak it woulda done it.  I don't buy the bounced out oh his mouth scenario, too much coincidental "what if this happened," "that coulda happened." A GWS is designed to kill, I don't think it misses as much as the discovery channel makes it appear.  To me the most logical scenario is that it because there was no gaping holes in the boat it simply came in to investigate....the initial hit, however "soft" it may have been ejected the paddler, shark stuck around to gum on the yak.   

I think it tried to kill the kayak, but it hit it fast expecting a soft, squishy, and heavy thing and got a light, hard and bouncy thing. as a consequence the kayak did not stay in the mouth for a real hard initial crunch.

I think the shark would also know before it cut the bow clean off that it was not biting a seal.

Really, how light and bouncy is a fully loaded kayak in the water freedrifting with the wind. Its not like a kayak is gonna bounce around like a beach ball or flee like a seal, in my estimation a kayak would be an easy target.    Had it been a kill shot the chances of it bouncing out are slim at best and even if it realized halfway through the bite there would have been more damage.  Whether a hit was hard or soft is not really a measurable variable as each party(including the shark) will have a different scale to base it on.  After seeing Air Jaws I think moving 4000 lbs around accurately is possible when thats what you're designed to do. 

J,
I wasn't there, nor am I the shark so I'm not gonna speculate on its intentions. What I do know is that a gw shark is capable of biting clean through a couple feet of skin/blubber/muscle and bone, if it wanted to a kill a plastic kayak it woulda done it.  I don't buy the bounced out oh his mouth scenario, too much coincidental "what if this happened," "that coulda happened." A GWS is designed to kill, I don't think it misses as much as the discovery channel makes it appear.  To me the most logical scenario is that it because there was no gaping holes in the boat it simply came in to investigate....the initial hit, however "soft" it may have been ejected the paddler, shark stuck around to gum on the yak.   

I think it tried to kill the kayak, but it hit it fast expecting a soft, squishy, and heavy thing and got a light, hard and bouncy thing. as a consequence the kayak did not stay in the mouth for a real hard initial crunch.

I think the shark would also know before it cut the bow clean off that it was not biting a seal.

Really, how light and bouncy is a fully loaded kayak in the water freedrifting with the wind. Its not like a kayak is gonna bounce around like a beach ball or flee like a seal, in my estimation a kayak would be an easy target.    Had it been a kill shot the chances of it bouncing out are slim at best and even if it realized halfway through the bite there would have been more damage.  Whether a hit was hard or soft is not really a measurable variable as each party(including the shark) will have a different scale to base it on.  After seeing Air Jaws I think moving 4000 lbs around accurately is possible when thats what you're designed to do. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I mean the front of the kayak can be lifted up with less than 100lbs of force.

The shark thought it was going to hit a 1000lb (or more) elephant seal in a decapitating blow.

10-1 is a big difference and could have totally messed with mr GWS expectations on bite and strike force. modulation.

We are both using our physical intuition here. and getting different results. one of us is right and one of us is wrong. oh well,  .

John

Just reading an article about nerueconomics and found a statistic: Deer kill roughly seven times more people per year than Alligators, Bears, Sharks and Snakes combined (130 deaths by deer per year)
The article goes on to quote psychologist Daniel Kahneman, "We tend to judge the probability of an event by the ease with which we can call it to mind", which is to say that the more recently it occurred, or the more vivid our memory of something like it in the past, the more "available" an event will be in our minds - and the more probable its recurrence will seem.
I'll add that when I read cafecraig's account of his experience last year, my mind just about recorded it as if it had occurred to me.
Comments?

that sounds like some serious psycho-babble.

p-spark computed the probability of someone that lives here and surfs, dives and kayak fishes regularly and the chance of an encounter was not that low.

J

I really don't think sharks "Play".  They are eating machines.  They are there to kill and eat.  If they did not want to eat the Red Kayak.I don't think he or she would have not taking the attack.  How many wild animals attack for "fun".  They hit it and found out it was not the right thing and then started to think?  Asked the sailors in the ocean durning WW1 or WW2...if you could.  They say that human flesh does not taste good.  But, if you are hungry...I don't think it matters.  We eat worms, bugs, maggots, snails or anything else that has 4 leggs.
So, why not the sharks?
They troll wetsuits, surf boards and foam cutouts because it looks like a seal or sealion and keep on attacking it.

Ken kickfish

How many wild animals attack for "fun". 

Plenty, Here's Orca's both preying on seals in the surf and playing with them in the open.....killer belly flop action toward the end




Some Futbol de Seal.




And one of the best commercials I've seen.

I think he just forgot his seal-be-still stick, 

HEY FOLKS,
 ANYONE SEE THIS?
 I JUST LIFTED IT FROM SPEARBOARD; My goodness! Whats going on ?
The word on the street is that the Aquarium canceled all research
diver activity in the bay due to the sighting of a 13 - 16 ft GWS at
Hopkins reef.

Steve

Killed by prop and then the shark takes over.... or killed by the shark alone....or what?
 Steve

looks like a prop injury to me. followed by some munching, but doesn't look
like a big shark.

regarding the sighting of the shark out there.

I have been having visions of a diver being munched in monterey.

probably cause I was reviewing the story of the fatality at lover's point.

Or because I detect a weird combination of denial and arrogance of divers there.

For some reason, my prediction powers of bad things seem right a lot.

J

John,

Get a crystal ball...join the circus and get a sex change.  Maybe, the sex change ...first.  But, put on a lot of make-up...because it would be HARD for you to pass for a girl. If the shark is still attacking the yak when I get back in....I don't think it was Playing....just my 2 cents.

Ken kickfish

That shark was frustrated and trying to get thru some thing he couldn't understand....ie  light, bouyant , tough plastic that wouldn't stay put and behave like non bouyant biomass.
 Consider this. No matter how hard your dog tries to bite a basketball...if its a bit big for his mouth, he has to work extra hard to go nowhere.
Before giving up...thats what this shark did. It ment business and this was  near miss...like on the hiway.
I know a little about sharks and I'm sure thats what happened.
 Steve
Tropical fishery consultant

Doesn't look like a sharkbite at all to me on that seal.

Shark bites look like this:


Although I'm guessing the bite in this seal is from a large 7-gill...or a very small GW. Or a GW removed the head from the seal and a 7-gill later took the bite out of the floating carcass. Or the head was removed by a boat prop...or???

Anyway - I took this pic at the Berkeley Pier a few years ago.

Anyone see this???




Shark carcass washes up on Ferndale beach
Jessie Faulkner/The Times-Standard
Article Launched: 09/18/2007 04:30:29 AM PDT

FERNDALE -- What is believed to be a great white shark washed up on Centerville Beach and is prompting more than a few residents to take the estimated one-mile hike north to see the remains.

Wendy Sotomayor, her father, 9-year-old son and 4-year-old daughter went this weekend after rumors spread about the shark's demise.

Estimated at 16 feet -- about twice the length of the average sofa -- the animal came to rest partially beyond the surf's reach.

”It was definitely a sight,” she said. “Everybody was in awe of how big it was.”

Several people scavenged the remains, removing most of its teeth, Sotomayor said. While her family visited two other men were digging out teeth further back in the marine animal's jaw. They gave her son a tooth -- which she ballparked at 1 to 1 1/2 inches.

Sotomayor's 4-year-old daughter was less impressed, thinking it was pretty stinky and keeping her distance.

A Coast Guard helicopter crew spotted the shark Saturday afternoon, said Lt. j. g. Russell P. Merrick, the helicopter's pilot. And that was from 300 to 400 feet up.

The aircraft circled back so the crew could take a closer look. Initially, the pilot said, they thought it ranged from 15 to 20 feet, but a closer look put it in the 15- to 16-foot range. The fish's eye, he said, was at least as big as his fist.
Merrick, originally from Massachusetts, said he'd never seen a great white shark in person.

It was enough to give him and the rest of the crew pause given that rescue swimmers frequently train in offshore waters.

Typically, when sharks die they sink to the ocean floor and are consumed by scavengers, according to Scott Quackenbush, the director of Humboldt State University's Telonicher Marine Laboratory and a professor of biological sciences.

Based on the estimated size, Quackenbush said, the fish would have been a fully mature adult -- a stage reached at 10 to 12 years.

For the shark to have ended up on the beach, it's likely that it became sick or was injured near the shore, possibly while feeding, he said.

”It's a pretty rare event,” Quackenbush said.



Jessie Faulkner can be reached at 441-0517 or jfaulkner@times-standard.com.