Official GWS Thread

.. if I recall from other research the sharks don't use the electrical field detectors (ampullae of lorenzini) to necessarily stalk their prey, but they do definitely rely on them at the final moment when they roll their eyes back and are sightless. The elecrical field then lets them know where to bite. In baited situations sharks will often move in toward a bait, but then end up biting the nearby swimstep or transom of the research vessel due to this.
  This kayak FF electrical theory is an interesting one.  I guess we'd need to put two identical yaks in the water, one with operating electronics and one without. This would probably prove as much as the "ham or side of ribs" experiment, but it would be interesting!

This is what I read from p-spark too.

So sequence is this (imo)

1. shark sees silhouettes of kayaks.

2. the one with the fins that generate vibrations like a seal is selected.

3. it nails it from 40 feet down.

4. hmm. "crunchy", not "chewy".

5. I kind of like this electrical field tho... gives me a nice buzz. maybe I'll taste test a little further.

    5.1 (maybe some bait or fish blood on dan's kayak is at least as interesting as the field, but shark does stay
           at the nose, does not go to tankwell).

6. never notices dan getting back on kayak. not real interested in scrawny rubber coated "otter".

7. swims away to find nice elephant seal to nail.

J

   J... That's classic!!!   

Z. pay attention. (did your mom ever express exasperation bringing you up?  ).

Too much fathering J, you ain't my dad. And speaking of exasperating I have a strange feeling your mother knows the same feeling.

Let's compare the GWS to the rest of the animal kingdom. Name an animal that kills indiscriminately and doesn't eat the prey.

Z

Z. pay attention. (did your mom ever express exasperation bringing you up?  ).

Too much fathering J, you ain't my dad. And speaking of exasperating I have a strange feeling your mother knows the same feeling.

Let's compare the GWS to the rest of the animal kingdom. Name an animal that kills indiscriminately and doesn't eat the prey.

Z

she did once ask me where I got my 'sense of rectitude'. I said, "what's that?". she said, "look it up".  .

anyway, what is your point? are you going to use bad analogies again to 'prove' your point? 

I think killing is done if it is easy for the organism. it doesn't really have much to do with anything else.

but sure, I'll pick one. the smallpox virus. I think it killed more humans than anything that has ever lived. 250 million people is one estimate. If that dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Henderson had not coralled the last public outbreaks between 1972 in europe and 1977 in somalia, the total would be in the billions now given the number of people on the earth now.

so now you are going to draw a parallel between the GWS and the smallpox virus? be my guest...

One of the things about this thread tho is that we have been able to stay away from hearsay, and at least some facts have been substantiated with links to other knowledge collections on the web, so if you can find a link to the stories of the penguins, post it up, because even tho I am giving you a hard time here Z in the name of Debate and Truth, you have put up some great info here and good ideas and I hope you can forgive me taking off the gloves, it's the only way I know how to play.

right now, unless somebody comes up with something better, I'm happy with my sequence of events above. It is only a theory, we'll only know for sure if we get a large number of similar events (I sure hope not!).

J

OK J, point proven. You're happy with the walls you've built and now and you can't see out. I'm over here still.. (Am I a glutton for punishment or what?)

My question to you was based on the theory that GWS are territorial. I believe they are just like a dog in it's front yard. Although GWS do travel extensively, when they are in feeding areas there's plenty of other animals around. It's common in the animal kingdom for animals to become territorial in situations like these. Somewhat like a wolfpack that travels. (Packs are nomadic and may range more than 250 miles. During the time when the alpha female has her pups in the den, the pack stays in one place. Other than that time, they are always on the move.) Even though they travel with the seasons, when an intruder comes into it's seasonal territory it's dealt with by posturing or vocally. Since a GWS has no bark and only a bite it uses what it has. Of course curiosity also has something to do with it but curiosity would yield only a very small response.

Some of the scientific community says:
"It is still undetermined whether great whites are territorial; however, current observations indicate they seem to possess a home range."
http://marinebio.org/species.asp?id=38

"This suggests that when their personal space is intruded upon, a white shark will give the intruder a warning bite."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_white_shark

Now what happened to Dan could have been an all out attack or not. He was ejected from the kayak for sure but this doesn't go to say the shark was in full on attack mode. A 1 ton animal's curious attack on a 160 pound human may feel like a full on attack but when you have nothing to compare it with it's just too hard to judge. I feel if this was a full on attack the shark would have been so enraged he would have taken a piece of the yak with him or at least opened a much larger hole. From Dan's account, it knocked him out and it decided to hang on and chew for a bit. Maybe for the buzz, who knows. IMO the GWS was saying "get the f*ck outta here" or "WTF is that doing in my yard??".

Z
"There are no facts just interpretations."

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this particular point.  .

The attack was for all the marbles...sorry Dan. If he had climbs into the Yak 2 or 3 times and the shark it still there trying to take out the head or neck of the Yak.  I really, don't think it's "PLAYIN".  I told you guys that this attack would happen a long time ago.   Just like John (mairey)  Only, problem was it would happen to me.

John (mairey)....let's just go paddle the "bean" and see who need a diaper change?

Ken kickfish

But we'll have to get thornley and marmot to paddle out and punch holes in each other's kayaks to measure sinking speed properly, 

I don't think so John. There's no need to, as I've already setup the grey Scupper to do that exact thing. Actually, I mean those plastic welds should be juusstt fine...

Scott

so scott you are saying I should take the noodles out cause they might mess with the sinking experiment,  .

At spot xj-19, two big sealions did a double take on the grey scupper. I felt bad for scaring them and tossed them each a blue.

J   

At spot xj-19, two big sealions did a double take on the grey scupper. I felt bad for scaring them and tossed them each a blue.

John, why you training those sealions to key in on kayaks?

-Allen

I'm just baiting you a bit there polepole.

Here's how it really went down. Sharky area. I was holding two blues in my lap during a hot bite. all adrenalized. woo-hoo, finally a fish every drop. and then the dogs popped up right behind me. two big sub-adult males and we scared all of ourselves to death. Those blues made a run for it while I was turned around. I don't think they got far tho. the dogs took after them like rockets. their acceleration really impressed me. it was cool.

if the dogs got the blues, they got them well away from the kayak and I'm not sure they could correlate the fish to the kayak. In any case, I did not see the dogs again that day.

I fully agree that teaching a 450 lb wild animal that it can get fish from a kayak would be a big no-no.

but of course, there are the rules everyone else, and then there are the rules for me,  .

Best,
J

P.S. let's get this back to some GWS action!

The attack was for all the marbles...sorry Dan. If he had climbs into the Yak 2 or 3 times and the shark it still there trying to take out the head or neck of the Yak.  I really, don't think it's "PLAYIN". 

I disagree ken, if the attack was for all the marbles that boat would have been minus a bow not scratched with a minor puncture.   

The attack was for all the marbles...sorry Dan. If he had climbs into the Yak 2 or 3 times and the shark it still there trying to take out the head or neck of the Yak.  I really, don't think it's "PLAYIN". 

I disagree ken, if the attack was for all the marbles that boat would have been minus a bow not scratched with a minor puncture.   

Agreed.

The attack was for all the marbles...sorry Dan. If he had climbs into the Yak 2 or 3 times and the shark it still there trying to take out the head or neck of the Yak.  I really, don't think it's "PLAYIN". 

I disagree ken, if the attack was for all the marbles that boat would have been minus a bow not scratched with a minor puncture.   

Agreed.

Not sure I agree, because if that shark hit the kayak hard and was expecting something soft and squishy the boat could have bounced out of his mouth before he got to deliver the crunch.

have you ever had somebody toss you something that does not weigh what you expect? hard
to catch it.

Now, maybe his second bites were more curious, but it sounds like the first hit was from the bottom and hard cause it ejected dan far enough from his boat he had to swim back.

I think the shark just bobbled the bite, but it meant a death blow to the kayak.

So my hypothetical sequence of events is:

1. hit hard from the bottom intending a mortal blow/bite.

2. kayak bounces out of the mouth of the shark.

3. WTF!?!?! (on the part of both Dan and Shark)

4. Shark goes back for some test nibbling.

John

J,
I wasn't there, nor am I the shark so I'm not gonna speculate on its intentions. What I do know is that a gw shark is capable of biting clean through a couple feet of skin/blubber/muscle and bone, if it wanted to a kill a plastic kayak it woulda done it.  I don't buy the bounced out oh his mouth scenario, too much coincidental "what if this happened," "that coulda happened." A GWS is designed to kill, I don't think it misses as much as the discovery channel makes it appear.  To me the most logical scenario is that it because there was no gaping holes in the boat it simply came in to investigate....the initial hit, however "soft" it may have been ejected the paddler, shark stuck around to gum on the yak.