I could live without healthcare reform! How about you?

This issue is near and dear to our lives and hearts. We are in business and in medicene. My wife is one of the leading researchers in the country concerning mortality. My son is or was in premed until this heathcare reform started.

The costs in healthcare are out of control and need to be reformed. Without reforming these costs, it doesnt matter who pays for healthcare the indivual or the goverment its going to bankrupt the country.

1. Malpratice costs. The costs of all the extra tests the doctors do to cover their asses and the cost of litigation is about 30% of all healthcare costs.

2. Underfunded medicare and medicaide. The goverment only covers 80% of the cost of medicare and medicade. The doctors and hospitials tack on an extra 20% to you and i to cover the difference.

3. The Mexican problem. The people who live in Mexico when they get sick come across the border into our emergency rooms and get free treatment for their illnesses. Everything from advanced surgery to giving birth. This is extimated to be between 10 to 20% of the cost of healthcare. this cost is passed on to you and I.

4.  Fat people...This issue is 75% of all visits to the doctor and most of the prescriptions are written to deal with overweight people. This is the huge ticking healthcare time bomb...

5. Tecnology. Rapid advances in medical tecnology are keeping people alive for years longer then 20 years ago..at great expense.

Deal with 1 through 3 and the cost of healthcare is cut in half, make fat people pay the full costs of not taking care of their bodies and healthcare is cut by 2/3rds to those who take care of their bodies.

My son dropped out of premed along with lots of his buds because Obama's public plan is going to cut another 10% of the medicare compinsation to doctors and then pay the doctors the medicare rates for people on the public plan. And that $!@#!@#! is planing to let the laywers still sue the crap out of the doctors everytime they sneeze. Be very aware that 60% of the doctors in this country are over 50 and most of those will retire in Obamacare is passed.

The goverment doenst do anything right and fucks everything up, just look at California...

And nobody has explained the cost difference between our system and foreign systems that produce better care.

It's been pretty much ignored. And I don't get. Normally it's the US plowing new ground and absorbing the associated cost of that. For once we can simply dissect other peoples systems and adopt what seems to work best. Should be a no-brainer.

Goverment medicene doesnt "work" anywhere in the world. In England they pay doctors so little that they are second class citizens. England has to import doctors from other contries and offer them citizenship. England has a system where they put a vaule on life based on how productive you are. Old people get terrible care. England has a 60% income tax rate and is so deep in debt from the cost of its "free" healthcare that is national debt is 100% of GDP. A debt offerning to the rest of the world failed last year, no one want to fun Englands "free" care.

Canada's healthcare system is great unless you get seriously ill.

None of these countries has the prolbems and costs  lawsuits and the Mexican people. None of these countires are a fat as we are.

Dont believe the mortality stats that are thrown out. In this coutry we include all accidents and murders and premature births as deaths. the rest of the world doesnt.

Gentlemen,

I truly appreciate the tone of civility in this discussion. This is an issue where people are easily angered, and where emotional, and often ridiculous arguments dominate productive thinking.

If we can try to neutralize the fear mongering, and point out the bullshit when it surfaces, and keep our  composure despite our strong feelings, we may get somewhere. And we need to get somewhere.

One more thing: I hear too many people see no need for change because they are happy with the coverage that they have now. We need to think bigger, to look at the way the system works overall, and see the shortcomings on that scale.

If you're alarmed by the phrase "socialized medicine", consider this:

Imagine you witness a stranger collapse with a heart attack, render what aid you can, and take the stranger to the ER. Imagine that he is unconscious and has no ID. John Doe. We cannot imagine living in a society where this man is turned away because of his inability to pay. He is treated and survives. And if he is without money or insurance, the costs are spread among us all, through our higher insurance payments, and higher costs for treatment. This we accept because there is no clear alternative. It is what we have now, and it IS socialized medicine. It's just not well planned, comprehensive, and affordable.

Let's try for well planned, comprehensive, and affordable.

Regards,

Paul

The goverment doenst do anything right and fucks everything up, just look at California...

And Lehman Brothers, Enron, Bear Sterns, Tyco...

I could fill your hard disc with the names of criminally negligent corporations from the last 10 years.

Goverment medicene doesnt "work" anywhere in the world. In England they pay doctors so little that they are second class citizens. England has to import doctors from other contries and offer them citizenship. England has a system where they put a vaule on life based on how productive you are. Old people get terrible care. England has a 60% income tax rate and is so deep in debt from the cost of its "free" healthcare that is national debt is 100% of GDP. A debt offerning to the rest of the world failed last year, no one want to fun Englands "free" care.

I lived in England for 28 years. What you write is completely false.

How is it possible to have a sensible debate when talk radio and cable news throw around lies like this? And people believe it?

...and it IS socialized medicine. It's just not well planned, comprehensive, and affordable.

Exactly. Private insurers are currently not doing what insurance is meant to do: Spread the risk.

They cherry pick the healthy and leave worst, most expensive cases to the taxpayers.

Even being with a non-profit insurer doesn't, in and of itself, protect you from waste. They too waste money on a massive scale

If you have healthcare, it's not about you... yet.

1.) It's mainly about the 40 some odd million Americans who don't have any insurance. Either way we're going to pay for their care. If we do it up front we're more likely to give preventive care which costs less than later care.

2.) The criminality of refusing care for people with "pre-existing conditions." I don't think I need to go into it but let me just say, it takes one tiny mistake (your mistake or another's) for you to be without healthcare and now a "pre-existing condition" which will make you un-insurable and have to pay out of pocket. Anyone who's looked through the charges on their bill knows that even the very well to do would go broke quickly paying them.

3.) Lastly, nearly two-thirds of Americans who declared bankruptcy cited illness or medical bills as a significant cause of their bankruptcies. And of the medically bankrupt, three-quarters of that group had insurance, at least when they first got sick.
"The American Journal Of Medicine" http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf

So it's not about you... yet.

Z

Fat people

I agree that obesity is a problem...  but while you single us out, how about smokers?  Drinkers?  Those who engage in "risky" activities, such as kayaking?

Where do you draw the line.

Goverment medicene doesnt "work" anywhere in the world.

Ocean, where do you get off with this? In fact it works all over the world. Or maybe we need to define "Goverment medicine" more. I think it's Switzerland who has the highest rated health care system in the world. If I recall correctly (and that's a lousy bet   ) they do it with insurance mandates and subsidies -- sound familiar?

My wife works with a medical director for a British life insurance company. He was forced out of his medical pratice due to lack of payment. He uses some of his salary now to support his partner who still trying to keep the doors open. So while you may have lived in England we hear if from the people that pratice medicine in
England and they dint have much good to say about the system. England has amassed huge debt to fund their health care and now the lack of money is a huge issue there.

the issue of "preexisting conditions" . This is about people who have never bought insurance when they where healthy, never paid a premium and are now sick. Now they want someone to pay their bills. Why should i who has never used healthcare and has paid my premiums for most of my adult life just in case i get sick pay for people who want a free ride?

And if insurance companies have to cover people with pre existing conditions then i am going to stop paying my premiums and only buy health ins urnace if i get sick along with everyone else. This issue is only to bankrupt the health insurance companies so socialized medicine can happen. the caps in health insurance is due to the rapid advances in technology, its very expensive and the insurance companies are terrified that some new life saving method that costs 20 million per patient is just around the bend.

Over a million Americans have died in wars the last 200 years, so that we can be free. Free from government having control over our lives and now we are willing to give up our freedoms because we are slaves to the TV and are to lazy to take care of our bodies, never mind working hard to make a good living. Individual responsibility for ourselves and our actions are something of the past.

The goverment doenst do anything right and fucks everything up, just look at California...

And Lehman Brothers, Enron, Bear Sterns, Tyco...

I could fill your hard disc with the names of criminally negligent corporations from the last 10 years.




And why did all the above happen?? Because Clinton took all the rules off of business and housing and turned the business world into the wild wild west. In the 90's in the world of business, it was called the no rule 90's. I just wish we could get the rules back on oil and the nymex so oil prices would stabilize.

What happend in the lat couple of years was not a suprise but was warned and warned and warned and warned ans screamed about for 15 years..but it the "economy stupid"....who cares about tommorrow.

The last of the Clinton ponzi scams in the business world is now coming to a head. Its called the life settlement industry. Started in the early 90's about the same time as the Dot Com scam, its crashing and burning right now and billions of the boomers pensions money is gone.....That what Clinton economy did. All the ponize scams from he Dot Com to housing to...take all the big pools of pension money and redistribute them into the economy creating a boom. Now that money is gone and the boomers have nothing to retire on...Just wait when the governments in this country have no pension money, companies have no pension money...
This is the next huge crisis coming in about 7 years or so thanks to Clinton. 45 trillion in unfunded pension obligations. Every hear of the pension benefit corp????? We are in very deep shit.
Oh and global warming, the next lastest greatest liberal scam, is based only on computer models. No hard facts, no hard numbers, nothing that other scientists can prove or disprove.  Go watch Gore's movie again...remmember the hurricanes we where supposed to have every year???

Ahh poor General Electric. They bought NBC and all the NBC affiliates in the late eighties just to push global warming so they could make a couple of hundred billion building windmills and lightbulbs and it doesn't look like cap and trade is going to pass...hmmm think they will sell NBC to the next company that wants to use the TV to create crisis to make lots of money?

This is the world that we live in.

How do i know this? I was one of the business that went Washington screaming for the anti trust laws to be enforced only to be told by clintons people to drop dead. Cost me my business and 250 employees their jobs.

And with this post i need to get going..to be continued

Oh and the swiss are very healthy people, dont ahve to worry about malpratice lawsuits and dont have a country full of poor people crossing their border and flooding their hospitals.
they have a mandate that everyone ahs to have health insurance and it works in their situation.

How is it possible to have a sensible debate when talk radio and cable news throw around lies like this? And people believe it?

That's a very important point NB. I know of one cable TV news organization out there that admits to having an agenda. Once a news org. picks a side wouldn't that make them propaganda? Comparing news and checking facts are important to find the truth. I guess it's the price we pay for convenience.

Z

the issue of "preexisting conditions" . This is about people who have never bought insurance when they where healthy, never paid a premium and are now sick. Now they want someone to pay their bills. Why should i who has never used healthcare and has paid my premiums for most of my adult life just in case i get sick pay for people who want a free ride?

Completely false. I've personally been in a situation where there was a denial of coverage because of a pre-existing condition. That person was covered for 68 years. Not looking for a "free ride" yet shunned none the less.

Z