I could live without healthcare reform! How about you?

I've been listening to a discussion about health care by health care professionals and thought you all might enjoy ot as well. I *think* you can listen anytime.

http://www.capradio.org/programs/programdetail.aspx?showid=6893&programid=408

One point. The Sutter Health representative estimated illegal aliens represent 1-2% of health care costs in CA. Another panel member estimated they consumed about 10% of charitable care. One of the few points of consensus was disappointment with Washington's emphasis on excluding illegals from health care reforms.

Ben

Of course they'd rather Washington give them money to treat illegal aliens than not. 

However taxpayers (who's money this is) do not want a system where undocumented 'health refugees' flood to the US and get health care for the last years of life (most of health care spending) without ever having paid into the pool during their healthy years to offset it.  That's basically theft.

Not covering illegal aliens would also create greater urgency for immigration reform.  Even Obama said that we shouldn't cover undocumented aliens, but rather get them documented so they can be covered.  That's putting the cart behind the horse.  He and I probably differ on the terms of documentation, but I agree that's the best way to go about it.  We'll create a 30 page thread on that one when we get to it. 

Wow this post is very timely.  I work for a city fire dept and just got back from a call.  It was a poor kinkos employee who had a seizure and busted his head open.  He had a good laceration on his head and was a little confused.  He needs stitches.  He was pleading with us not to take him to the hospital because he cant afford it.  Its sad.  I dont know what the answer is but we have is not working.  I see it every day.  The bigger problem we have is our government.  Our system may be good compared to many other nations, but it is not a good set up.  We have two parties that hate each other.  They both do all they can to kill anything the other does.  Therefore nothing good gets done.  How can we function this way?l

Of course they'd rather Washington give them money to treat illegal aliens than not.

You have to listen to the broadcast.

He was pleading with us not to take him to the hospital because he cant afford it.

I'm curious. Are you required to take him for treatment?

We have two parties that hate each other.  They both do all they can to kill anything the other does.  Therefore nothing good gets done.  How can we function this way?l

Like they say, we have the worst possible system of government... except for everything else. I'd like to say it's always been like this, and in a sense it has, but I don't ever recall in the past anyone actively seeking the failure of a president (Obama's "Waterloo") at the expense of the country. Maybe I'm just becoming jaded.


Ben

Here is another huge cost to our healthcare system that i just learned about. In all the big cities the homeless have learned how to get free top of the line housing any and every night...They walk into a hopsital emergecy room and say they are thinking of commiting suicide. The hospital is required by law to give them a bed, food and care for the night, better then anything they can get in a homeless shelter.

Geee no wonder why it costs 30k to have a baby or 500 bucks for a bandaide

Damn bro.....you just don't quit do you?

My dad worked for a while as a paramedic, and sometimes people would call the ambulance to get a ride (usually drunk folk who live near the hospital), complain of some generic not feeling good to justify the ride and claim to feel better and walk home once they got to the hospital.  Once the paramedics figured that out when the person asked to go to hospital X, the medics would say 'that hospital is on bypass, we're taking you to the one on the other side of town'.   

Those kinds of shenanigans do go on, but they aren't a major cost driver.  The way to prevent such abuse is a modest co-pay.

Pspark:

As a Paramedic, I can attest to what you speak of, I've seen it many times.

You point out that this is not a major cost driver. Thanks for that voice of reason.

It's frustrating, but I see that many side issues such as this are used to deflect our attention from the real task at hand: cutting down on the cost of health care, and making access to health care more universal. In the health care debate, we need to keep our eyes on the ball: concentrate on doing what we can to make things better.

It's unfortunate that we lack the political will to engineer truly meaningful reforms. A big part of this is, in my humble opinion, is due to the undue clout of the lobbyists that represent insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Their influence is evident across party lines; I can't seem to find a champion here. Perhaps meaningful solutions will lag behind campaign finance reform.

I'd like to be more hopeful. But I'm not delusional.

all i can say is its easy to cuts healthcare cost in half but the liberals are all aobut big goverement and big brother. Give a free ride to those who dont want to do what it takes to suceed in this country, you know hard work long hours, that stuff that the succesful people do.

Nope the "Its not my fault" crowd is in power and if they are successful feedom is lost. Ya and its a fact that 74& of healthcare cost are due to not taking care of ones's body but hey thats also to much work for the liberal crowd.

Ok so i will stop boring with fact and truth and let you beleive in all the left wing porpganada, but my son has dropped out of med school along with most of his buds, so screw the doctors and there wont be any.

Ok so i will stop boring with fact and truth and let you beleive in all the left wing porpganada,

I'm tired of the porpganada too.

Here is another huge cost to our healthcare system that i just learned about. In all the big cities the homeless have learned how to get free top of the line housing any and every night...

That's bullshit. You seriously think EVERY homeless person sleeps in luxury EVERY NIGHT? I've seen the housing offered to the poor at Glide Memorial, and it's not something you would choose if you had any other option - those apartments are TINY and I assure you, there are not enough available for every unfortunate soul in the city.

Unemployment is a social service - should we get rid of that? Many people get more out of unemployment than they put in.

all i can say is its easy to cuts healthcare cost in half but the liberals are all aobut big goverement and big brother. Give a free ride to those who dont want to do what it takes to suceed in this country, you know hard work long hours, that stuff that the succesful people do.

Not everyone can become rich and successful - that's how capitalism works. There will always be people with less money, but that doesn't mean they don't work hard. In fact, the people who work the hardest often tend to be the poorest - you know, the fruit pickers, dishwashers, floor moppers, etc. When 80% of the nation's wealth is hoarded by 5% of the population, how can you blame the poor?

Those who are born privileged - with money, with family support, with the ability to go to college - often think they have worked hard to earn what they have when in fact they haven't. Sorry, but yours is a typical "me me me" attitude, not wanting to share with all the people who make this society work.

Ya'll just tired of thinking...come on now.

My dad was a hillbilly from North Carolinas Smokey Mountains and my mom was an Oakie from...literally Muskogee.
 I was born with certified white trash blood and raised on welfare, food stamps and unemployment checks so if anyone should be culturally ignorant , it should be me.
Having life experience with my own pale, lowly motivated and yet "entitled"  brethren I have a hard time getting worked up over a % or two of harder working pre-immigrants.

Besides, the cost of health care is driven up by largely by the worst "over-billing, overvaluing overcharging system insurance schemes driven" system ever devised.

I got hurt on a fishing boat in New Zealand and they treated me on the basis of my credentials as a human being....despite the fact that I was American.
The doctor asked me about "my system" in America. He was amazed at how money driven it was. I guess countries that don't subsidize a corrupt, chronic, over-valuing, over charging, over billing war making department have money to spend on their people.
Steve

When 80% of the nation's wealth is hoarded by 5% of the population, how can you blame the poor?

Those numbers are out of date, Andrew. They have migrated over the past decade, or so, to the point that 1% of the population holds 90% of the wealth.

What's interesting, though, is that it isn't necessarily that 1% complaining about the idea of universal health care. Actually, I guess that's obvious, 1% would hardly stir the pot. The reasoning for opposing universal care is, as best as I can tell, based in suspicion. "The government is bound to screw it up" as though our government can't function as well as other industrialized nations in this sense. "I'll be taxed more" -- maybe, depends on how it's implemented, but we're taxed for all our government  services. "It's socialism" -- please. In the classic sense it is not, in the modern sense we've "socialized" a great deal and not many want to reverse any it.

Steve's experience in NZ is what most of the world experiences (nice to hear from a fellow Hillbilly ). I've compared notes with a Kiwi and as far as I can tell they don't pay much, if any, more tax than we do -- *and* their tax affords universal care, so they spend less than we do in total, so it *can* be done. They also aren't fighting multiple wars, but they are, like us, running a deficit, so something has to change.

As for the "left wing propaganda" which is, apparently, everything Ocean doesn't agree with, I posted the NPR round table link because the participants represented all sorts of views from many aspects of the health care business. Drs, insurers, hospitals, etc... it's probably the only such gathering I've seen/heard that generated more light than heat.

Ben

Here is another huge cost to our healthcare system that i just learned about. In all the big cities the homeless have learned how to get free top of the line housing any and every night...

That's bullshit. You seriously think EVERY homeless person sleeps in luxury EVERY NIGHT? I've seen the housing offered to the poor at Glide Memorial, and it's not something you would choose if you had any other option - those apartments are TINY and I assure you, there are not enough available for every unfortunate soul in the city.

Unemployment is a social service - should we get rid of that? Many people get more out of unemployment than they put in.

all i can say is its easy to cuts healthcare cost in half but the liberals are all aobut big goverement and big brother. Give a free ride to those who dont want to do what it takes to suceed in this country, you know hard work long hours, that stuff that the succesful people do.

Not everyone can become rich and successful - that's how capitalism works. There will always be people with less money, but that doesn't mean they don't work hard. In fact, the people who work the hardest often tend to be the poorest - you know, the fruit pickers, dishwashers, floor moppers, etc. When 80% of the nation's wealth is hoarded by 5% of the population, how can you blame the poor?

Those who are born privileged - with money, with family support, with the ability to go to college - often think they have worked hard to earn what they have when in fact they haven't. Sorry, but yours is a typical "me me me" attitude, not wanting to share with all the people who make this society work.

Amazing completely amazing, how the homelsess are treated at a hospital. A hospital has to have special housing for the homelss that demand free housing and food every night from the hospital...and its ok with you?

you have no idea what hard work is, hord work is not the boring sweat work that someoen does for eight hours a day picking fruit...hard work is the working 70 hours a week for 6 to 15 years to get a business established so one could become rich. Its the stress and night without sleep as you try to bring your product to market befroe the comptition kills you. Hard work is the stress of seeing the fine tuned machine that you spent 10 years building beiing destroyed by the unions.

Its very true not everyone can become rich, most people can not handle the workload and stress to get there.

You peoeple who work or a paycheck have no idea what hard work is until you try to get a busienss started.

And if you want to give or get a bunch of free stuff for those homeless who will never and have no desire to work as everythig is provided for free to them, then you pay the bills and keep you hand out of my wallet.

Thats the liberals give me free stuff and tax those people who bust their ass to become successful, so i dont have to.

I just want to thank Zilla for his cut and paste first post that was the equivalent of hitting a bees nest with a stick and sitting back and watching.

 I love you Zilla....this is very entertaining!

This is likely the longest thread I've ever seen on this FISHING SITE!

Agape......every day is a gift!.....go fish!