I could live without healthcare reform! How about you?

Acorn, SEIU, Tides, and the Czars - there's a long history of connections between all of them and Obama.  He feels Redistrubition of Wealth is his duty.

ACORN == Well, we all know what evil those community organizers bring.

SEIU == Service Employees International Union. Ditto here. Let's return to the pre-union era where child labor was the norm and any attempt to organize was beaten back with a club. 18 hrs a day, 6-7 days a week? Oh, for the good old days.

Tides == "Our mission is to partner with philanthropists, foundations, activists, and organizations across the country and across the globe to promote economic justice, robust democratic processes, and the opportunity to live in a healthy and sustainable environment where human rights are preserved and protected."  Pretty nefarious.

Czars == a science czar, cybersecurity czar, regulatory czar, weapons czar, bailout czar, bird-flu czar, AIDS czar, intelligence czar, Afghanistan czar, war czar, terrorism czar, drug czar, faith-based czar, food-safety czar, Mideast-peace czar, manufacturing czar, and Katrina-cleanup czar -- does this seem unreasonable?

I'm always entertained by the hysteria that the term "Redistribution of Wealth" brings. Indeed, that includes taxes. But, primarily, wealth is redistributed through wages and benefits. Uhhh, do you receive wages and benefits?

If we find out someday that I'm wrong, I'll gladly accept your criticism.

Shall we start now? Serius-ly 

Ya gotta love Obama's community organizing work, yup he sued for Acron worked for acorn great organization...proscutions for voter fraud in 32 states, helping to set up whore houses with underage childern from latin amreican with advise on how to abuse them,,,geeeee goota love Demorats such nice honest people....oh and the stimulus bill that no one read has or had 8 billion in it for Acron and the Acron Coprerations under different names so as to get ready to stuff the ballot boxes and do more voter fraud on the next election cycle. 8 billion dollars of those of us who pay income taxes.

SEUI  A domestic terrorists organization. If they are going to try to unionize your comapny you better damn well get security cameras everyhwere and armed gaurds at your house. After all that high school dropout working at walmart should make 80k a year just likes that guy who studied hardin high school and went to college and has skills.

Czars  They should have some expernece in what they are czaring about, not just some Obama buddy collecting 250k per year as payback for their help in getting him elected.

And the redisturbtion of wealth only is real if you work you ass offf and have some wealth, you know the stuff that you get after years of hard work and scrafice. And then some lazy @!$@$#@ who want everything now and doesnt want to work for it, or wants to do the mimiumal amout of work, votes for people who promise to steal  the results of all that hard work, ie wealth,  for him so he doesnt have to do the hard work. These people are called liberals.

and all the fat related dieases would be very rare.

But if you eat 110%, aren't you going to get fat?

Nope you just shit alot!!!!!!
[/quote]

OMG... I hope that was just you not checking your addition.  If you eat 110% of your required daily caloric intake you get fat- plain and simple. Doesn't matter if what you are eating is "healthy" or not. Fat happens.

and all the fat related dieases would be very rare.

But if you eat 110%, aren't you going to get fat?

Nope you just shit alot!!!!!!


OMG... I hope that was just you not checking your addition.  If you eat 110% of your required daily caloric intake you get fat- plain and simple. Doesn't matter if what you are eating is "healthy" or not. Fat happens.

Well, I did wonder. I assumed I had made some sort of mistake, what with me being an uneducated freeloader and ocean_314 being an eminent scientist in the field of "Insurance Medicine".

Hey my typing sucks and so i made a mistake on adding up the precentages but the idea is if you eat healthy you stay healthy, just add in some exercise and you dont use healthcare except for haivng babies and acidents..which is what healthcare should be about.

that's sometimes true up until you are about 55 or so--then you start to use more and more healthcare. Look at your wife's Sullivan or multistate tables, you'll see that is true...

Ya gotta love Obama's community organizing work, yup he sued for Acron worked for acorn great organization...proscutions for voter fraud in 32 states, helping to set up whore houses with underage childern from latin amreican with advise on how to abuse them,,,geeeee goota love Demorats such nice honest people....oh and the stimulus bill that no one read has or had 8 billion in it for Acron and the Acron Coprerations under different names so as to get ready to stuff the ballot boxes and do more voter fraud on the next election cycle. 8 billion dollars of those of us who pay income taxes.

SEUI  A domestic terrorists organization. If they are going to try to unionize your comapny you better damn well get security cameras everyhwere and armed gaurds at your house. After all that high school dropout working at walmart should make 80k a year just likes that guy who studied hardin high school and went to college and has skills.

Czars  They should have some expernece in what they are czaring about, not just some Obama buddy collecting 250k per year as payback for their help in getting him elected.

And the redisturbtion of wealth only is real if you work you ass offf and have some wealth, you know the stuff that you get after years of hard work and scrafice. And then some lazy @!$@$#@ who want everything now and doesnt want to work for it, or wants to do the mimiumal amout of work, votes for people who promise to steal  the results of all that hard work, ie wealth,  for him so he doesnt have to do the hard work. These people are called liberals.

How did the script from the Glen Beck show get in here??

Z

The 8 billion is real, the whorehouse thing is real the proscrutions for voter fraud is real. Obama suing the banks when he worked for Acorn is real.

Personlly having had the unions try to unionize my company i ahd to hire special security just so my employees could get to work, these people are nasty as they get.

I personally know the guy who had the biggest jaintorial service in Silcon Valley, hard working guy got a lot if legal immigrants started in thier first real job as he was an immigrant himself. No body in his company wanted the SEUI so guess what they did? Tried to burn down his house, didnt work the house next door burned to the ground, his had minor damage. You better believe he had armed guards at his house after that. He finally caved into the pressure and became union. Now he can no longer sponser new legal immigrants, nope its SEUI only employees.

I could go on about the rest but we have devolped a two teired socitey, those who work their asses off and what the keep as much of their money and stuff as possible. And those that believe thats its ok to take other peoples stuff and vote in politicans that promise to do so.

that's sometimes true up until you are about 55 or so--then you start to use more and more healthcare. Look at your wife's Sullivan or multistate tables, you'll see that is true...

Very true, but if you do the research the people who take care of their bodies use very little healthcare until they are way into the medicare ages.

Here is todays reading and possible it will help you all understand just how heavily regulated the insurnace industry is.

Panel Debates Gag Rule 
 
By ALLISON BELL
Published 9/23/2009  Subscribe to Life & Health

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Members of the Senate Finance Committee today voted 10-13 to kill a proposed amendment that could have protected health plans’ right to share views on legislation with enrollees.

All Democratic committee members voted against the amendment, which was proposed by Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., and all Republican members, including Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, who is seen as a swing vote on health legislation, voted against it.

The Finance Committee is holding a “markup,” or bill drafting session, to review and revised the America’s Health Future Act bill, a health reform bill developed by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont.

The federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services recently wrote to Medicare Advantage plans to forbid them from sending mailings to plan enrollees telling them that health reform bills now before Congress might disrupt their Medicare coverage.

CMS officials suggested that the communications might violate privacy provisions or other provisions in the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996.

The proposed Kyl amendment would have stated that HIPAA places no limits on a health plans’ communications with enrollees about legislative matters.

“We all have a right of free speech,” Kyl said.

Free speech includes the right to be wrong, and Republicans believe that health plans’ warnings about the possible damage that bills such as the current version of the AHFA bill could do to the Medicare Advantage system are correct, Kyl said.

“We will never conclude work on this important legislation if the debate is chilled,” Kyl said.

Baucus countered that Medicare plan enrollees often think that the carriers are part of the government, and that the carriers intentionally foster that belief.

“There’s no First Amendment right to lie,” Baucus said. “We should not let companies take advantage of their relationship with seniors.”

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said the health insurers involved with recent health reform mailings have apparently been using plan funds and mailing lists that belong to the plans.

The situation might be different if the plans were using their executives’ own cash and independently purchased mailing lists, Schumer said.

Earlier during the markup, Republicans on the committee failed to persuade the full committee to take two weeks to turn a summary of the bill into formal legislative language before holding a vote.

“We’re talking about trillions of dollars,” Snowe said. “What’s the rush?”

 But Republicans did succeed at getting the committee to agree to take an extra week to get a preliminary Congressional Budget Office analysis of the effects of the proposed bill before holding a vote.

Meanwhile, Republicans and Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee voted 51-0 to add a price disclosure provision supported by Republicans to that committee’s version of H.R. 3200, the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act bill.

Members of the Senate Finance Committee today voted 10-13 to kill a proposed amendment that could have protected health plans’ right to share views on legislation with enrollees.

All Democratic committee members voted against the amendment, which was proposed by Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., and all Republican members, including Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, who is seen as a swing vote on health legislation, voted against it.

The Finance Committee is holding a “markup,” or bill drafting session, to review and revised the America’s Health Future Act bill, a health reform bill developed by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont.

The federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services recently wrote to Medicare Advantage plans to forbid them from sending mailings to plan enrollees telling them that health reform bills now before Congress might disrupt their Medicare coverage.

CMS officials suggested that the communications might violate privacy provisions or other provisions in the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996.

The proposed Kyl amendment would have stated that HIPAA places no limits on a health plans’ communications with enrollees about legislative matters.

“We all have a right of free speech,” Kyl said.

Free speech includes the right to be wrong, and Republicans believe that health plans’ warnings about the possible damage that bills such as the current version of the AHFA bill could do to the Medicare Advantage system are correct, Kyl said.

“We will never conclude work on this important legislation if the debate is chilled,” Kyl said.

Baucus countered that Medicare plan enrollees often think that the carriers are part of the government, and that the carriers intentionally foster that belief.

“There’s no First Amendment right to lie,” Baucus said. “We should not let companies take advantage of their relationship with seniors.”

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said the health insurers involved with recent health reform mailings have apparently been using plan funds and mailing lists that belong to the plans.

The situation might be different if the plans were using their executives’ own cash and independently purchased mailing lists, Schumer said.

Earlier during the markup, Republicans on the committee failed to persuade the full committee to take two weeks to turn a summary of the bill into formal legislative language before holding a vote.

“We’re talking about trillions of dollars,” Snowe said. “What’s the rush?”

 But Republicans did succeed at getting the committee to agree to take an extra week to get a preliminary Congressional Budget Office analysis of the effects of the proposed bill before holding a vote.

Meanwhile, Republicans and Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee voted 51-0 to add a price disclosure provision supported by Republicans to that committee’s version of H.R. 3200, the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act bill.

that's sometimes true up until you are about 55 or so--then you start to use more and more healthcare. Look at your wife's Sullivan or multistate tables, you'll see that is true...

Very true, but if you do the research the people who take care of their bodies use very little healthcare until they are way into the medicare ages.

It is true that they use less health care compared to others in their age group, but not compared to all age groups. This is a key component of the actuarial science behind the calculation of insurance premiums- that a groups health care expenditures increase by age.  Unfortunately i don't have the research anymore (i sat for the frist two actuarial exams a zillion years back and this was one of the areas that i had ready access to volumes of research). There was also a decent study that analyzed health care expenditures by BMI (published in '87 by Heithoff and Cuffel i think)

It all accounts on whose underwritting manual you are looking at. I dont know what the rules are on how helathcare companies figure out their rates, but i do know in the life insurance industry everything is broken down by age and condition of ones body ie health.

Some more reading for you all.

On Eve of Finance Committee Action Neurosurgeons Announce Senator Baucus’ Healthcare Bill Seriously Misses the Mark

The Nation’s Brain and Spine Surgeons Also Express Disappointment in the Process

WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The American Association of Neurological Surgeons (AANS) and Congress of Neurological Surgeons (CNS) announced their opposition to the “America’s Healthy Future Act of 2009,” recently released by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus. Additionally, while Senator Baucus pushes ahead to finalize sweeping healthcare legislation extending coverage to the uninsured and controlling increasing healthcare costs, the AANS and CNS cannot ignore several key issues which are vital to any overhaul plan and are missing from this bill including: concrete options for proven medical liability reform and protections to ensure patient choice of physician, including the right of patients to privately contract with their physicians (which allows for greater access to physicians and budget certainty for the government).

Troy M. Tippett, MD, President of the AANS, states, “There is a real urgency to have our voice heard. The Senate Finance Committee will begin voting on this bill this week and as it is now drafted, the bill is extremely detrimental for physicians and our patients. As surgeons, we are especially concerned that this bill fails to recognize or address the looming workforce shortages in surgery and specialty care which will greatly impact the next generation of Americans. In the year 2025, we’ll need 41,000 surgeons who simply just won’t be there.”

“We are pleased that this bill does not include a public option, but remain concerned that the alternative co-op proposal may likewise lead to a government-run plan, which we believe will ultimately reduce insurance options and eliminate personal choice,” comments P. David Adelson, MD, President of the CNS. “Unfortunately, this bill fails patients and doctors because it imposes new agencies and more bureaucracy and government than currently exists, which will ultimately interfere with the doctor-patient relationship.”

The AANS and CNS find the following provisions to be particularly alarming:

•The bill fails to recognize the looming workforce shortages in surgery by requiring that all unused medical residency training slots be allocated to primary care.

•The bill is devoid of proven medical liability reforms and merely includes a “Sense of the Senate” encouraging states to develop and test alternatives to the current civil litigation system as a way of addressing the medical liability problem. It is well established that medical liability reform will improve patient access to care and reduce defensive medicine costs, which have been estimated at $210 billion per year and could help finance expanded health coverage.

•The bill inappropriately expands the government’s involvement in determining the quality of medical care and resource use. Doctors are mandated to participate in the Physician Quality Reporting Initiative (PQRI) -- which does not effectively measure quality – or their fees will be cut by 2%. Physicians who fail to comply with national resource use benchmarks faces cuts of 5%.

•The temporary one-year SGR “patch” to replace the 21.5% payment cut in 2010 with a 0.5% payment increase does little to address the serious underlying problems with the current Medicare physician payment system and compounds the accumulated SGR debt, causing a payment cut of approximately 28% in 2011. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has confirmed that a “significant reduction in physicians’ participation in Medicare would reduce beneficiaries’ access to services.”

•Unchecked by Congress or the courts, the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services would have unprecedented authority through, among other things, the new CMS Innovation Center and the new Independent Medicare Commission to make significant changes to the Medicare program, which permits the government to arbitrarily reduce reimbursement for valuable, life-saving specialty care for elderly patients, thereby threatening treatment options.

•Patient-centered healthcare is threatened by provisions curtailing the development of physician-owned specialty hospitals and changes to office-based imaging.

Furthermore, AANS and CNS leaders are disappointed in the process leading to the development of this bill. “Over the last several months, at the invitation of Senator Baucus, we, along with other medical professional organizations, have provided valuable input -- as a strong voice from the ‘front lines’ -- to help shape the future face of healthcare in America,” added Dr. Tippett. “And while we were thankful for this collaborative opportunity during this monumental reform process, we are very disappointed that virtually none of our recommended changes are reflected in this bill, calling into question the value of this process.”

“We applaud lawmakers and the president in their dedicated efforts to provide affordable healthcare for all Americans and we wholeheartedly agree that healthcare reform measures are needed at this time. However, the AANS and CNS support a carefully targeted set of reforms, which improve the broken aspects of our present system. We stand firm that dismantling our current framework or creating a huge government bureaucracy is not necessary to achieve meaningful healthcare reform,” concluded Dr. Adelson.

The American Association of Neurological Surgeons (AANS), founded in 1931, and the Congress of Neurological Surgeons (CNS), founded in 1951, are the two largest scientific and educational associations for neurosurgical professionals in the world. These groups represent approximately 7,600 neurosurgeons worldwide. Neurological surgery is the medical specialty concerned with the prevention, diagnosis, treatment and rehabilitation of disorders that affect the entire nervous system, including the spinal column, spinal cord, brain and peripheral nerves.

Contacts

American Association of Neurological Surgeons and Congress of Neurological Surgeons

It all accounts on whose underwriting chiral you are searching at. I don't perceived what the rules are on how health care companies amount out their rates, but i do perceived in the activity allowance industry aggregate is torn down by age and action of ones physique, i.e. health.


_________________
International travel medical insurance

How did the script from the Glen Beck show get in here??

Z

Last time I saw, Glenn Beck had more than 1 chin. Thus I think you'll find he's very unlikely to support the healthcare agenda proposed by our ocean_314.

ocean; maybe you should have your own show? Or you could put your manifesto into a book;

"The 110% diet, your guide to becoming Invincible!!"^*1.

"an expert in the field of Insurance Medicine ^*2, Professor ocean_314 shows you how to live forever! You'll never need healthcare again! Never have an accident! Never contract a disease! Become immune to cancer! Stroke! Auto accidents! Great White Sharks! You'll never go to hospital again! The only Dr you'll see is Dr Phil!! (or should that be; Dr Fat! he's not invincible!!!) You'll only go to Walgreens to buy makeup! It's guaranteed! Because if it doesn't work, it's your own fault you fat mexican liberal!"

^*(American passport required for purchase).
^*2 (Professorships available; simply post >30 articles of 3000 words or more on the internet forum of your choice. All posts must be from Industry sponsored sources).

How did the script from the Glen Beck show get in here??

A year or two ago I stumbled across Beck while channel surfing. I was amazed at how shallow the guy's process was and just wrote him off. Yesterday I discovered he actually has a following. I guess all you need is a belligerent attitude and the ability to stir up people's emotions. I also discovered yesterday that the Hammer was dancing with the stars. It's a strange, strange world.

Ben