Gimme Shelter III - Shelter Cove - The Lost Coast (Swim Vid on Pg. 4)

Excellent insight, swellrider, and well put - not chastising anyone but poignant, critical info here.

I can only speak for myself but lots of lessons to learn for this.

I was waiting for the other shoe to drop and there it is...

Thanks, Swellrider, very well said, and excellent points. 

Al and I were discussing the stirrup method at Paradise, but didn't know what it was called or how it worked exactly.  Thanks for laying it out.  I will practice it.

This is a good illustration as to why it is prudent to keep your rigging clean.

And I agree that a bilge pump would have saved the day(s).

Thanks for giving the pro perspective, Hawk.  Good points.  Regarding the bilge pump, I know it was considered, and I think it was determined that the WX was such that it would've been risky to start pumping out there.  So with Al in the powerboat it was easier to just tow his boat to shore.  Now, if the bilge pump were handy earlier in the incident maybe it would've gotten Al back on his boat and helped us avoid a mayday, but I think the WX issue was a valid roadblock to the pumping.

I'm not opposed to helping you out with a safety seminar, Hawk.  If our friends at Malibu come through with that Pro Staff endorsement I'll be all over it.

Domenic is pysched to put an electric bilge pump in his boat.  I'm pretty content with my dozen noodles at this point (and bilge pump), and I'm considering another dozen.

As for getting the victim out of the water ASAP, there was no way to do that without putting someone else in the water since his boat was nearly capsized and it was unknown whether we could just pump it out (didn't know if it had a hole in it).  Since he had a wetsuit on and was in direct contact with someone on a very stable ride I felt that he was safe even if we had to paddle in like that.  It was definitely good that the powerboat came out, but we would've gotten him to shore without it long before a motor life boat could've arrived.  The mayday call was made because it would've been irresponsible not to make it.  I saw us getting Al to shore with only kayak resources if necessary.

I think a big point to make here is that we ended up paddling too close to breaker areas and the nearshore reef.  With a partner and staying out away from the reef and breakers there is more time to deal with a problem.  Paddling with a partner and a radio is, IMO, very safe in a place like Shelter Cove.  To call the radio's unreliable at best is not accurate.  If the proper care is taken you should be in possession of a working radio even in a bad situation.  I like my choice to have my waterproof radio in a waterproof bag.

Also a huge point here, the boat apparently has a major defect that allowed it to fill with water.  Finding this out at GS3 was unfortunate.  Hopefully we won't see such a defect again, but we need to be ready for it.

My first reaction was the same as Swellrider's and his points are largely spot on, however I try not to second guess decisions on the water when I wasn't there, particularly when professional first reponders were present. All that said, these incidents ARE largely preventable and when they do occur they are costly with regard to public services and the reputation of our sport. As most folks know I am a fanatic about safety on the water and here are some lessons from the incident...

1. Take a paddling class AND practice self-rescue every year on a fully rigged kayak in real swells. I have seen many experienced paddlers struggle to re-enter a fully rigged kayak with a heavy stringer of fish. I made this point in the GS3 hookup thread and will say it again.

2. Many VHF radios fail when submersed. I have used many over the years and have not found one yet that is fully functional right after submersion. This is the reason why I carry an EPIRB. The SPOT is a less costly option. Keeping your VHF in a dry bag is another consideration, but I find them cumbersome.

3. New kayaks need to be fully water tested before going on the ocean or SF bay/delta. This is the 3rd incident of a kayak sinking resulting in coast guard assisted rescue in our group. Water testing should include: paddling upright and yak upside down in water as a minimum. Internal floatation and a bilge pump are also good. I hate carrying a lot of extra stuff but I always carry and extra paddle, bilge pump and tow rope on the ocean.

4. Paddle with experienced paddlers on the ocean. If you are less experienced, it is your responsibility to get your skill level up, otherwise you become a liability to the group. Being unprepared on the ocean not only endangers yourself but the people you are paddling with. I often paddle miles offshore in remote locations and I only paddle with people I know can handle themselves in a really bad situation.

I think organizing some safety/fishing events is a good idea and will try to put one together at MBK this summer. Sean did one last summer and it was very popular. This event however would be for people who already have taken a basic paddling class and would focus on practicing skills on rigged yaks.

Scott

I was several hundred yards away when I heard the incident break out on the radio (somebody elses - I wasn't carrying one   ). 

Since there were already at least a dozen kayaks in the vicinity or on the way I decided that all was well and to just hang back.  No sense in crowding the rescue, right?

One question that has been in my mind since that Sunday was "should we have called the Coast Guard in with so many kayaks right there"?  I assumed with all those boats that Al was as good as rescued and I was a little surprise when I learned that the Coast Guard was called.  Knowing that the very worst thing you can do is NOT call for help when you need it, I didn't really want to ask the question.  But since we're taking another look at this incident - I thought I'd ask.

If you're in a rescue situation and you're already being helped and the likelyhood is that you are safe - should you still call the Coast Guard? 

Abking made the comment above that it would have been irresponsible not to make the call (to the CG) - and when I first read it I just kind of agreed without thinking about it . . but why would it not have been better just to tow Al in to shore with kayaks?  I was far away so my view could've been innacurate - but it looked do-able to me. 

I am asking these questions in order to learn more - not to criticize anybody or anything that was done on Sunday.  The most important thing is that Al made it back to shore safely. 

I agree with most of what Swellrider says. As I understand it Al's radio did fail and if he hadn't have got that msg out before he did, this could have been a whole lot worse.

To clarify a couple of points about the timeline; attempts were made to drain Al's yak, but we were very close to the rocks and the swells were reasonably large (not huge) but unpredictable. As I remember it, the decision to tow Als yak was made once the powerboat was in sight. We were all conscious of the need to get Al out of the water ASAP and his own yak was not the way to do it in those conditions at that location. 

Also a huge point here, the boat apparently has a major defect that allowed it to fill with water.  Finding this out at GS3 was unfortunate. 

To turn this point on it's head, if he was going to find this out anywhere, GS3 was a great place to do it with scores of other yaks close by and Don on shore with a pair of binoculars and a couple of radios. Finding out your yak has a hole in it when you're out by yourself or even in a small group would be a lot worse. Al had a buddy with him on Saturday but it didn't do a whole lot of good; it wasn't until a bunch of us arrived that we were able to battle to conditions and get him back in the yak. On Sunday we would have been in more trouble without the powerboat since the yak was no good to anybody.

but why would it not have been better just to tow Al in to shore with kayaks?  I was far away so my view could've been innacurate - but it looked do-able to me. 

Not a chance. Even if this had been physically possible for those doing the towing it would have taken a very long time to get Al into a safe shore landing location; too long.


I learned a lot from this. I figure the most important thing is to minimise the chances of anything like this ever happening; I'm gonna stuff my hull with noodles, be sensible about when to go out be be certain my yak is seaworthy when I do. Second, make sure I'm in the best possible shape to help myself; self rescue, have a working, waterproof floating radio, a decent PFD, a decent wetsuit with no hole, a flare, a whistle, a light. Third, make sure there are other people around. After Al's incidents at GS3 Lisa kept saying to me over and over; "If that happens to you, I can't help you". Three is the magic number for me now.

Good discussion going here.  I've been thinking more about calling the Coast Guard.  There is a distinction that needs to be made between kayaking and other boating.  The fact is, you're more likely to find yourself in the water if you're kayaking, and getting back in your boat isn't anywhere near as potentially hazardous as getting back in a powerboat would be. 

I have to hit the road right now for Memorial Day family festivities, but I have more I'd like to say about this.  My thinking is running along the lines of this:  we need some kind of level of certification inside our group - it would identify those who have assembled the agreed upon safety equipment and taken the time to show that they have all of the skills and knowledge to handle a situation without calling in assistance from outside sources.  I'm now feeling that we SHOULD have been able to handle the situation without any assistance from "outsiders".  Just the kayakers should have been able to fix this particular problem, and we also need to identify exactly what criteria would elicit the REAL distress call to the Coast Guard.

This discussion is about all of us - you're not being picked on, Al.   

Right on spot Swellrider.....

 I have been feeling " Uncomfortable " about his whole thing,

 and you just pointed out why in very well put post... Thanks....

 When I saw Al, overturned, headed towards the rocks... my first thought was " He's Done....   "

no one near,, and how " Avoidable " this whole thing was... it quickly turned for the better... we got lucky...

  

 Swellrider has said it perfectly and pointedly and we should all hear his words,

Thanks Again,

One question that has been in my mind since that Sunday was "should we have called the Coast Guard in with so many kayaks right there"?  

 I knew when calling the Coast Guard, it would not be the Coast Guard coming to the rescue in time unless a miracle happened, but...

 They know of the immediate resources and what is available. They would be able to get in touch with The Shelter Cove Fire department quicker than any us,  and, if our situation did get worse, they were all ready advised/in the loop, and help would be on the way that much quicker....

 Ramping something up and then backing down, is always better than falling behind the 8 Ball.....

 Thanks for all the kudo's on what I did, Police/Fire personnel, it's what we do and it just comes's natural when you do this sort of thing on a daily basis,

 If it's real or not, your putting a system in place and " Practicing it.... "

That is just what Swellrider is saying, we need to train/practice and always be familiar with our abilities and prepare for these situations... they are real

Again, I broke down the communication thing so we could all further learn from it...

But what Swellrider has posted is far more valuable for us NOT to get into these situations in the first place...

 No blame on anyone....  We were Blessed we a perfect opportunity to learn from,

   I think we are doing a Great Job on that, ( More Kudo's... )

               So,  lets turn this into action.....

Great thread, nice to see how pro we are to have this discussion without stepping on feelings or second-guessing the decisions made by others.  We have to remember, kayaking is a water sport...you have to be prepared and even expect to get wet everytime you go out.  I'm confident in my ability to get back in the boat, but never gave too much thought on how to get someone else back in their boat.  Thanks for the tips Hawk, I'll be putting them to practice this summer.

In the meantime, I think I'll head out to Wal Mart now and buy a dozen or so floaties to stuff in my boat!

Good fishing all,
-beenfishin

Moving the safety topic to the general page would probably keep us more informed of seminars and available training. Thanks Swellrider for pointing out some major flaws in the getting ready part of kayak fishing. I like the float bags also and the valve on my Prijon bag just broke the other day and I have yet to fix it. Getting new bags next week.

By the time Al was on the powerboat Ariel had already started with towing his yak to shore.  We followed Ariel with intentions of relieving him, but he easily towed Al's boat in and it hardly took more time than just paddling in without towing anything.  As for pumping the boat out before Al's entry to the powerboat, I assumed those options were weighed and decided on by others behind me that were seeing to those things.  That was the beauty of the Team, and I think it proved to be the right choice to just tow it ashore.

Thinking more about how the Coast Guard must react when they're summoned on something like this, and dredging vague memories of reading about it...  I realize this should have been a call of "Pan-pan". 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan

Wow what a great thread this has turned out to be. I have been following this from the beginning wishing I was there with you guys. I can just feel the passion for this sport and this event just beaming from each reply and account of the weekends festivities. It has all the elements of a great trip. You guys really know how to have a good time and way to go on looking out for each other.

Reading the last few replies about safety, I couldn't agree more that each individual should be as prepared as they can. I am planning on entering the ocean this year for the first time and I am very safety conscientious. I have read several threads on this site and believe I have all the safety gear needed. I have practiced self rescue in a fully rigged kayak in the Delta, not the ocean. I plan on practicing surf launching and landing in Linda Mar in the next couple of weeks. But, will this make me completely ready for kayak fishing in the ocean, probably not. I think only on the water experience and time will allow one to be fully prepared. You have to start somewhere, right?
It sounds to me that the more experience guys feel that the prerequisite to entering the ocean may be taking some kind of safety/paddling class. Can everyone truly say they have done this, or again are the skills acquired by those more advance guys just achieved over time? I do not want to be a risk to myself and ultimately to someone else. I would much rather start off in an easy launch/landing location with ideal weather conditions and favorably someone with experience. Will this be deemed a risky venture and frowned upon, given the fact I have not taken some type of safety/paddling class? I have been around the water all my life and feel very comfortable in it. This sport is new to me as I have only been paddling in the Delta since last October. Sorry for the long drawn out questions and reply, but I am having fun kayaking and I really want to have a fun and safe summer fishing for the various species of rockfish and meeting a lot of you.

You guys are great and I truly value your opinions and insight,

Ray

Thanks for that enthusiastic reply, Raydog.  I think you're good to go with what you're doing as far as preparing to enter the ocean.  Personally, when I start spouting about safety seminars...etc. (no, I've never been to one) it's because I was the primary instigator of GS3, so events and second-guessing are weighing a bit more heavily on me than most at this point.  I'm coming down off it though, and outside of wanting everyone to bring a certain level of preparedness to a future planned event, I don't plan to try to regulate anyone other than myself.  Events like this with so many people yakking (it was my first "hookup" of more than 8 guys or so) are bound to present some issues, and, like I touched on before, I think it's up to us to determine how best to respond.  Even if we "required" someone in a tournee to have some training or equipment, there are all the other parts of the weekend that are really not being overseen by anyone other than the group itself, so we're back to the honor system, as it really should be.  If we, as a group, see someone who is out there and obviously not prepared it is up to us to decide if we're going to pressure that person into complying with some set of safety guidelines, OR it's up to us to state that we are not responsible for others on the water.  The nature of the group is to assist others and support a group mentality, so I think we'll continue to feel our way along the road of trying to bring a little peer pressure, but no one is looking to dictate any kind of requirements.

What's "funny" is that years ago myself and my buddies who got into this sport started off in wetsuits, no PFD's, no radios, no pumps, no noodles, no flares, no extra paddles, no GPS, no compass...etc. - we went a mile offshore with a cheap boat, a paddle (no leash!), a rod, a gaff, a few leadheads and shrimpfly rigs, and that was it!  Ah, how times have changed - for the better!   

IMO going out with others and a bunch of equipment can give a false sense of security.  

My first time in the ocean there were 15 of us and I still got separated and forgotten about because of the Dan Incident, (no one's fault but my own).  

My compass just broke...  glad it wasn't in a fog with dead GPS batteries.  As mentioned, radios fail, batteries die, etc.

We all must be prepared to rely on noone but ourselves.

 The safety should come first and the fishing second. Everyone looks at the reports so what better place to put this important lesson. Common sense is not that common, there are things you can't learn from mileage alone. For instance first aid & CPR, self rescue and rescue techniques, the importance of safety gear and rigging. This is a sport that you need to be conditioned for physically and mentally. I think with the increasing popularity of kayak fishing, the coast guard should require yakers to have some fundamental safety certification similiar to scuba diving. Be an asset to your group not a liability, be prepared for the worst. When I first saw a kayak with a top heavy load of extra gear I thought to myself wow that is an accident waiting to happen. Bottom line, be self sufficient and end your trip with a happy ending not a horror story.