Where to buy a hunting rifle?

Phil......think twice.....no, think three times.....before considering one of the bargain-basement 7.65 x  54  Russian (1890-1930 vintage) military rifles from Big-5 Sporting goods.   (7.65mm is .30-cal, and the "54" is the length of the brass case)

Out at Chabot I see guys shooting them and being curious I've peeked at their targets.   At 100 yards they are getting 7-8-inch groups.   Very Poor.

This has happened in way too many cases for it to be entirely the fault of the shooter.    that leaves:  rifle and/or the ammo.

The ammo could in fact be a major factor.   ALL the guys I've seen shooting have been firing original surplus rounds.   Nitrocellulose-based powders do NOT last forever.   I would not be terribly surprised if there is actually a 20% round-to-round pressure difference.   Such a pressure variation would go a long way to explaning inaccuracy.   But on the other hand the GROUPS I've seen these guys firing...???.....those groups are 8-inches round.....not vertically strung out.   So.....I dunno.   In one case (one only) a guy's extractor would not properly grip a fired round.   Range safety officer fiddled with it for awhile, could not achieve extraction and the guy had to leave the range.

A number of guys at Chabot are firing WWII surplus Japanese rifles.   They too, are not getting admirable groups.  The remarkable thing about these old Japanese rifles is: muzzleblast.   Guy at the neighboring bench will fire one.   You will whisper to yourself...."Holy toledo..!!.."...    Guy on the opposite bench was firing a .300 WinMag with muzzle-brake and it was the same from both  sides.  With the win-mag and muzzle-brake you would expect that.   But wow....that Japanese rifle bellowed too loud to seem quite coppasetic.

Judd

I agree with staying away from the surplus stuff for hunting. They are fun plinkers but not quite accurate enough for hunting and the surplus ammo usually is corrosive and will eat your barrel if not cleaned properly.

If you want to try my .270, you are more than welcome.

If you want to try my .270, you are more than welcome.

Phil, this is the way to go - not necessarily his .270, but go out to the range with some of these guys & try a few different rifles to get a feel for what you want. Then find something similar in your price range. Kinda like test driving kayaks before buying. Looking forward to hearing about the poor little piggy! 

Big 5 carries surplus rifles on the cheap, Mosin Nagant 7.62 x 59 ( I think been a while sine I picked up one of those), or the empires old tried and true SMLE in .303 a damn fine hog gun, shop around before in vesting in Wally world.  .270 might be a better caliber to go with, doesn't have the recoil of the .30-06, but you  can hunt anything in North America with it.

I'll second the beware of the cheap surplus rifle.  Some are great, but they are antiques, some worn more than others, you have to know what you're looking for.

That said, I own four surplus rifles and each model tells a story.  They are fantastic pieces of history, and great fun, especially if you don't mind replacing the odd part here and there, (which are cheap and plentiful).

Sounds like someone's been peeking at my groupings...  I always figure if I can hit a pie plate, I can hit a zombie!

Going surplus or used for a first rifle can be have its pitfalls.

Surplus, you have to deal with a rifle that may be in poor condition from a shooting perspective, with no easily visible clues. Secondly, getting lead free or even plain old sporting ammunition in metric calibers may not be all that easy. Surplus rifles, while certainly capable of killing game, were not designed as sporting arms, and from an ergonomic standpoint can be a handicap.

Used, as above you could have a poor shooter with no visible clues to this fact. However, if you are buying a rifle from an individual, you can at least insist on a test shooting session.

In both cases above, rifles are likely to be sold "as is". You have problems at the first range session, you've got little or no re

For individual to individual, or an out of state transfer, dealer fees are going to run $35-$100. The low end for an in-state person to person transfer, the upper end for an out of state transfer through a dealer that sees this as a profit center. Yes, there is a 10 day waiting period.

For the above reasons I'd recommend that you start out with either a verified good shooting used rifle, or an inexpensive new rifle that comes with a warranty. Savages are pretty darn ugly, but they have a reputation as shooters. Ruger's reputation as shooters is not as good, but they have a following. New low end Remingtons may be functional, but have practically zero resale value. No such thing as an inexpensive new Winchester. Mossbergs have had blowup issues lately.

If you decide to use a scope, don't go too cheap. At least for optics you can easily save some money using the intarweb. Either through classifieds or online retailers. Talk to people about specific brands and models, as there is some real poor quality stuff out there.

I too recommend checking out calguns.net.

Regards,
Scott

There are a lot of surplus rifles that are very good, the swedish mausers in 6.5x55 are generally awesome hunting rifles - they were made for taking long shots in Scandinavian mountains, and most US rifles are also excellent, though heavy.  Some models of 8mm rifles have been unshot, others were strapped on the back of a camel for 3 generations...  Also guns that were made during peaceful periods are usually better quality, while wartime manufactured arms, particularly russian ones, were fairly lousy.  Sometimes something will be cheap because a cargo container of them arrived and flooded the market, but otherwise you generally get what you pay for. 

You could always buy that 20 pack of nagants from AIM for $69 each, pattern them all and dump all but the best on internet auctions. 

I once read somewhere that a guy took a micrometer to a surplus 8mm bullet and found that it was more than 1% out of round (IE it was oval shaped in cross section).  That's not going to be good for accuracy. 

The worst recoil I've ever seen was a Steyr Mannlicher M95/30.  They are very light and were meant to be comfortable to carry for police.  A light gun with a steel butt-plate is like getting hit with a baseball bat...

Those 6.5's have to be one of the best shooters ever. Way too heavy for an all day carry rifle but a great bench gun.

 The Steyers are nice looking but that rimfire ammo is almost impossible to find  The Swedes are very fine rifle.  post and pre war models almost always have better fit and finish than post war.

I don't recall it being rimfire, it does use an oddball round though.  It also uses weird en-bloc-ish clips like the M1 Garand, and the straight-pull bolt is also wierd.  It's an all-around strange little torture device. 

those mosin nagants just kick to hard to shoot comfortably,with the metal butt plate and all.big 5 has sales all the time for 30 06  and 7 mm also keep in mind ammo cost when lookin at a rifle. ammo is getting f*&%kin crazy to much!look at ammoman.com for cheaper rounds.anyways good luck huntin.   ps where ya goin public or private land?

SOme of the pre WWI's and post WWI's until the Germans took over the factory were set up in a weird rimfire.  Twice I have looked at them and walked away.  As for the recoil, most decent shops have slip on butt padds.  My .303 kicked, till I put a slip on, now it is very manageable.  Northern Boy regardless of what you buy your wife will appreciate the pad.  It will also make her a better shot as she will not flinch in anticipation of the recoil.

Thanks again folks. We will start on public land. Ideally we would just take a guide on private land down in King County, but that's a lot of cash.

We're gonna go for some pheasants in a couple of weeks, then we'll work up to big game (for which rimfire is illegal right?).

Oh.......this is just TOTALLY............

{{{{{An area for absolute FREE-WHEELING civil disobedience:}}}}}

[Person-to-person firearms transfers.]

Oh my, oh my.....

Silly police
Silly State
Silly silly State Legislature

Oh my.......
...silly..
...silly..
...silly..

Judd

The 270 round is a great all around round.  The kick is moderate but your wife could handle it so both of you could shoot this caliber.  I've dropped deer and pigs with mine and they went down very quickly.  From the range of 150 yards to 20 yards.  Yes 20 yards.  At that range my bullet fragmented like a grenade and much meat was wasted, but range is very rare.