Are we doing the right thing?

 True...what about fishing in shallower water...I see a lot of pics of rockies with their eyes bugging out. Maybe 80 feet or less??? How deep do you guys bottom-fish? The deepest I go is usually about 40' I think (I don't have a depth finder).

Not sure I understand what you're saying.  I just pointed that out because you suggested a size limit restriction.  If you're sugesting a reg change for depth restriction to make more fish releasable I 'd have to strongly disagree with that as well.  Who knows how long it'll be (if ever) before we can get out past 120' again.  The only thing that would do is force more anglers into a smaller space causing the shallow reefs to get overfished and lead to more regulations.  Shallower water does lessen the risk of barotrauma but doesn't eliminate it so that would be a bit drastic IMO.
Alot of guys voluntarily fish shallow but thats all personal preference. IMO, whatever floats your boat so long as you're within the regs.

For what its worth.  I understand and respect the spirit of the original post but I enjoyed the thread about Elk.  I wasn't able to make the trip and probably won't be able to get there anytime soon either.  Honestly I couldn't wait for the first post so I could catch a glimpse of the awesome coastline/fishing you guys up there enjoy on a regular basis.

They started out the year with the south-central zone open from 120-240ft, if the nearshore fish get too whacked by the live fish guys and all the rec guys forced on them, we may get a 60-180' or 120-240' depth restriction.  Then kayakers would be pretty screwed since in most areas it's a long way to get out that deep.

And this is what I find most useful about the FF.  I know that I am within my allowed depth ranges.  And, I can honestly work an area without having to guess where on the chart I am.
Pat

We were all fishing around 40-60 feet of water, the risk of baurotrama is minimal.  The buggy eyes on some are from the bonker.

The whole ff this is goofy.  Some of the boats in the top 3 didn't have one.  I don't have one out of laziness, but there is nothing ethically wrong with them.  Really calling it a ff is a misnomer.  Besides, if you can't find structure in a place like Elk without a ff you suck at fishing, in fact you might be legally blind!

I did very well that weekend and I don't have a fishfinder.  I found a reef by watching the swell and dropped down to nail my 16 3/4 pound ling.

I had an FF and only got 1 ling at 8lbs (60 feet).  There isn't much structure out at 90-100ft.  My results speak for themself.

One other thing I've noticed to lessen the chance of baurotrama is to SLOWLY bring up you fish to the surface, rather than horse it in.

Stuart

My fishfinder died on me about a month ago (PirahnaMax 20 for those keeping score on models that suck) and I didn't miss it one bit during the tournament.   I find that when my ff was working I'd spend more time moving from place to place trying to find the perfect spot and less time actually fishing.

Brian

The fishfinder lets me spend more time in the "zone", or at least lets me think I am.  I spent the morning out by Nose Rock and I would drop in at 70 feet and drift up the ledge to 50, then repeat.  My 16# came when I was paddling back to 70 and noticed a hole in the bottom.  I dropped a jig into the hole and  "bam!", fish on!.

However, a FF on the kayak doesn't let you circle around finding the best areas in the region.  It let's me find the details in a perhaps 100 yard by 100 yard area at best, since we are limited by paddle power.  If I didn't have the fish finder, I probably would have ended up doing the same drift, but not pulling up sooner once I hit 50.  And if I didn't pull up sooner, I would have spent more time up on the ledge at 50, where incidentally Brian pulled his winner from.  A FF lets me be too smart for my own good.

-Allen

This is a very interesting thread... but also a bit saddening.

Fish Finders being blamed for "Successful" fishing.
Suggestions of fishing in "Pairs" with digital cameras and digital scales.
Suggestions about depth regulations....

And on and on.

Sean. I am sorry you posted about the few Enviro-Nazis giving the Community Center guy grief.

I am sorry all of the hard work you did for this tournament is being over shadowed by an inane discussion based on hypotheticals and personal opinions.

I am sorry that we are having a 4 page discussion about the ethics of FISHING on a KAYAK FISHING BOARD.

I guess in the future we should all sit in a living room, drink organically grown Chai Tea, and our "Fishing Tournament" can be turned into a grown up version of the Pokemon game where we all sit around a box full of little paper slips that have different fish species and weights written on them.

I can see it now, we all take turns drawing slips of paper, which we then either put back in the box because they are the wrong type or length, or we give out a shout of glee as we staple a "Keeper" to our score sheet.

After the last slip of paper is drawn, we can declare a winner, and then read our tea leaves, shake hands, and plan the next event.

Talk about the emasculation of the human male.

My Simple guidelines.
1 - When I fish I let everything go unless I, or someone I know, definately wants to eat what I catch. (Seems that most all of us fit into this catagory)
2 - I like using a Fish Finder, but for some reason I seem to forget the battery about half the time, and guess what... I still catch fish sometimes, and I still get skunked sometimes. Go Figure...
3 - I don't fish with, or associate with poachers.
4 - If someone wants to keep a Calico Bass, I offer cooking suggestions.
5 - If someone wants to release a Calico Bass, I offer resuscitation techniques.
6 - If you don't like "Catch and Filet" tournaments... then don't fish in them.
7 - If you can't find a "Catch and Release" tournament... then host your own. (See for yourself how hard one of these things is to run.)
8 - If it is legal... Don't bitch about it. If you don't like it, work to get the law changed, but don't look down your nose at people that are enjoying a LEGAL activity.
9 - I won't tell you how many fish to keep... you don't tell me how many I should release. Sure, maybe 3 - 20" reds is enough for you... but do you KNOW if I am having a Fish Taco Party? Do you know if I have a Television? Maybe I don't, and I have 10 kids, or maybe I have a vaccum pack machine and I flash freeze my catch to last me all season because I eat fish 5 nights a week. It's legal, and what business is it of yours? Don't like it? Work to get the limits changed, the season shortened, or size restrictions adjusted, but trying to GUILT me into changing my fishing habits is NOT the way to make me change my ways.

I don't have to justify the way I fish or the gear I use to anyone. If you don't approve of what I do, or how I do it... DON'T FISH WITH ME.

It's amazing... this is like a mini Roe-v-Wade for guys. To Kill or not to kill.

Know what? I'll leave your decision to you and your beliefs. You leave my decisions to me and my gods.

If we do that we can all stop posting on this, thank Sean for all of his hard work, and get back to paddling and either fishing and keeping, of fishing and releasing.

Ric

That was said elegantly!  My hat goes off.   Sean put together the best tourny I have attended. My only complaint is I missed the ceviche!  Next year I think we should do two things :Line all of our yaks up by hiway 1 for a photo shot. Second, tell Brian when the ceviche is being served!

-Brian

Rikshaw, I'm guessing many of us have similar quidelines to the ones you listed.  However, I really don't see the sadness in this thread and I wouldn't mind if it ends up being 40 pages long.  Obviously members of this forum wish to have a bit of a discussion on kayak fishing ethics and where better to do that than on a kayak fishing forum.  As long as we remain civilized where's the harm?  


Brian

P.S.  Rikshaw, I haven't had it out yet on it's maiden voyage, but a big thanks to you and Cobra Kayaks for putting up such a sweet prize at the Elk tournament.

Two days after our donation to coastside they are threatening legal action about the way that the MLPA is being funded.

However, I really don't see the sadness in this thread and I wouldn't mind if it ends up being 40 pages long. Obviously members of this forum wish to have a bit of a discussion on kayak fishing ethics and where better to do that than on a kayak fishing forum. As long as we remain civilized where's the harm?

Ditto.  I don't see this as any type of reflection on our efforts at the tourney.  Everyone has been super thankful, and judging by the recycling bins had a good time.  I however am about healthy enough to hit the water, so I am moving on to "regular" fishing reports.  I need a chromer!

Damn that jellyfish kid, he never logs out...that was me.

What I see as Sad about it Sean is the need to somehow justify our actions.

As you know, I have been involved in selling, making, designing and marketing kayaks for a few years now, and before that I was a designer and technical director for various other outdoor industries.

In that time I have learned a few simple things.

1 - There is ALWAYS going to be a minority group of people that tend to be very vocal about how EVIL you are for doing what you do. Be it hiking, camping, biking, etc... there will always be people that try to stop you from doing it.

2 - (This is the biggie) Elitism KILLS sports. Look at wind surfing. This is a recent example. You had a neat sport that was torn apart and an industry that was destroyed by groups of people devoted to ULTRA high tech looking down their noses and confrontationally ridiculing newbies and people that could not afford the latest and greatest gadgets for the sport. The more the tech heads advanced the sport and promoted the EXTREME things they could do... the more they drove away the base of the entire industry. The beginner.

This thread, and others regarding the uproar are only contributing to both of these sentiments, and that is what makes me sad.

Mr. Matt wrote the following -

#1 Environmentaists would obviously see this as a ton of people taking all the fish in that area.
#2. Now that place will definately be hit hard by everyone wanting to catch a big lingcod and it will definately affect the fishery in that area..

So from #1 I guess we should worry about how we are "Perceived". Yet this is what I am pointing out... there will ALWAYS be SOMEONE looking to be offended by what you choose to do in your life, and it is flat out silly, IMHO to try and portray things in a different light to simply appease people. And I am sorry, but #2 is simply an unnecessary blanket statement that I feel is absolutely wrong.

Pescadore wrote -

As for suggestions: A catch and release tourney would have great PR value ....

Again... why APPEASE people and cater to them? YOU DID NOTHING WRONG!

Bluekayak wrote -

When somebody told me about this website the 1st thing I noticed was that people are sporting fat stringers of fish that in pre-cheap-fisherfinder times would have only been caught by some of the more saavy and hard-working fishermen among us and I thought hmmm, some pretty good fishermen there, then I notice the little ff's in the background... I have a hard time seeing how doing things that way warrants any sort of respect.

As well as -

But it'll be too bad to alienate everyone in sight while this "sport" of kayak fishing is in its infancy. When the sot's started showing up on the scene, maybe 4 or 5 years ago in this area anyway, I had a few concerns myself, but they had more to do with access issues, which is a subject for a whole other discussion.

For the most part we are a heavily SELF POLICING Sport, and far more responsible than any group of fisherman I have EVER been associated with, with the exception of some highly elitist fly fisherman.

Worrying about how other Perceive us is the WRONG way to approach things. As soon as we hold events to please others, we have already stepped out onto the slippery slope, and as soon as we start looking down our noses as Bluekayak does at people that use gadgets like fish finders, this whole sport will fade back into obscurity because of all of the different factions.

Anyone that knows me knows that I promote KAYAK FISHING and not simply a brand name. I do not care what you paddle.... as long as you are paddling and having fun. This sport is not about pleaseing everyone, and if we try, we will fail miserably. We are on the right track by being responsible stewards of the areas we fish, but being factional and by worrying about how we are perceived is a proven way to failure.

That is what makes me sad.

As they say about history, those that can't remember are doomed to repeat it.

Wind Surfing, Roller Blades, The Ski Industry, etc...

Ric