Bad news for near-shore fishing at Albion & to Central Coast on Sept 1

As fun as it is to blame bad data and greedy fishermen and "woke" scientists funded by Lester Holt and George Soros, I'll take a step back and assume that the data are relatively sound. The fishermen aren't that greedy. The "woke" scientists are just doing their jobs.

Keep in mind that fish populations are not typically static, and that fishing is not the only potential stressor on a population. Remove all fishing from the equation, and you can expect fluctuations and variability in a population over time due to a range of factors. Poor recruitment, hypoxic zones, poor juvenile rearing conditions, predation, etc. The ocean is always changing, even moreso these days post-Industrial Revolution.

Quillback rockfish mature at 4-6 years of age. Many NorCal kelp beds transformed into urchin barrens about 8-9 years ago. Although adult quillbacks typically live in deeper waters, the juveniles rear in shallow nearshore waters. Could kelp beds be a critical habitat attribute required by juvenile quillback rockfish? We know a lot of rockfish species love to rear in kelp beds, maybe quillbacks are particularly in need of them.

A viable population needs high enough recruitment to replace the older fish. We could be entering a situation where there's a severe lack of younger cohorts. This is noted in the 2021 quillback stock assessment: a significant lack of younger fish in the samples. It does not bode well for the future of the population.

Assume you have a retirement home that consists of an isolated population of people. You walk into the retirement home and see a lot of old people, and claim "so many people, this population is doing fine." But how does the future of that population look? There are almost no younger people in the home. Eventually, one way or another, you can expect those old people to pass on with no younger people to replace them.

The kelp bed die-off of the last decade is just one off-the-cuff example of what may be happening to quillback rockfish. Ask a rockfish expert, and they'll probably provide a dozen other plausible explanations.

I know I berate the commercial fishing industry a lot, I do recall when Monterey had a canning industry and there was a time when fish were so plentiful in streams that you could catch them with your hands. So why some of your points are correct what I am trying to say is there was once a time when the fishing industry caught fish for local use, then as industry started to grow and it was able to ship overseas they started to catch more and at some point I do not think a local area of fish can be caught to support a world population. It is possible this is where the point you make, that so many fish are caught the populations decreases to the point we have to put restrictions on catch and limit until it rebounds and then we repeat until we continue the cycle. I know right now if we step back for just our small area of the globe and look at the world, we are loosing fish population from overfishing, look at the Chinese fleet that have overfished their seas and now they transverse the globe to decimate other parts of the seas, like countries of south america. Look at shark population, they have been on the planet for over eight million years and are now overfished for what, their fins, for shark fin soup. This is a problem which is only getting bigger, So what to do if we really want to save the aquatic life for years to come, Ron.

I'm really curious just where all these quillbacks are reportedly being caught.

Anecdotally, Crescent City had a banner year for quillback this year.  I saw several reports with a retained quillback and a note that there were several others encountered.

I have caught several quillback in CC before.  I don't recall ever catching one south of there.

The truth has the quality that everyone notices when it’s absent

I know I berate the commercial fishing industry a lot, I do recall when Monterey had a canning industry and there was a time when fish were so plentiful in streams that you could catch them with your hands.

That's true, overfishing killed the canning industry, can read all about it all over how greedy fishing was, and how the government took over the fishery to supply food for WWII.  But it also was in fault of the DFG not taking measures to protect the resource and when they did it was all too late, and not well implemented.  More factors than that as well, I found an article I read a few years ago about it: https://swfsc-publications.fisheries.noaa.gov/publications/CR/2000/2000ParrR2.pdf

I finally connected with James Phillips, who made the decision to close the nearshore fishery. Interesting conversation. He was very open and forthright about the rationale and the way in which CDFW manages these fisheries. I encourage everyone who has a serious interest in learning about the way this all works to contact him.

He sent me a link to one of the documents that bears on this matter: https://www.pcouncil.org/documents/2022/11/h-4-a-supplemental-gmt-report-3.pdf/
It's only decipherable to those with some scientific background. Fortunately that includes me.
Unfortunately my initial read-through suggests there is some very bad science going into these decisions.  In this specific case, as I suspected, there appears to be little or no actual data specific to Quillbacks on post-release mortality, especially if using a descender. So the numbers used in their modeling are based on grouping all the demersal (bottom-dwelling) rockfish together - meaning the same numbers are applied to Quillbacks and Gophers. As I am sure most of you will agree, these two species are vastly different; Gophers almost never swim back down on their own, Quillbacks almost always do. So I fear there is bad science here that is leading to poor decisions.

There's more and it will take me some time to really dig into it. One other disturbing fact he related is that the entire Quillback population from Cape Mendocino to Pigeon Point is treated as one number. So regardless of what happened here in Mendocino, if the numbers from San Francisco look bad, we lose.

We caught lots of quillback at Reading rock on the one trip we went out there this year.  We also caught lots of coppers too as well as several yelloweye.  The quillback seemed to go back on their own, but I was descending all fish we didn’t keep anyways.  I think I caught a quillback at the Cape once or twice and I agave caught a few in Shelter Cove fishing the deeper reef outside of the red can and south.

The only place I saw that might be within reasonable kayak range was out of Van Damme and off of Pt Cabrillo.  Looking at maps, the spot is either just at the 50 fathom line or just barely inside of it.  There is two spots I saw and both are just under 3 miles out which isn’t bad at all.  The spot off Pt Cabrillo is only 2.4 miles out which is even better, but I don’t know how easy it is to launch there.  More than likely, the spots are just inside of the 50 fathom line. Anyone have the GPS coordinates for the 50fathom line around Albion and Van Damme area?

Well that’s a bunch of BS  . It’s a good thing I paid for a useless fishing license .

I finally connected with James Phillips, who made the decision to close the nearshore fishery. Interesting conversation. He was very open and forthright about the rationale and the way in which CDFW manages these fisheries. I encourage everyone who has a serious interest in learning about the way this all works to contact him.

He sent me a link to one of the documents that bears on this matter: https://www.pcouncil.org/documents/2022/11/h-4-a-supplemental-gmt-report-3.pdf/
It's only decipherable to those with some scientific background. Fortunately that includes me.
Unfortunately my initial read-through suggests there is some very bad science going into these decisions.  In this specific case, as I suspected, there appears to be little or no actual data specific to Quillbacks on post-release mortality, especially if using a descender. So the numbers used in their modeling are based on grouping all the demersal (bottom-dwelling) rockfish together - meaning the same numbers are applied to Quillbacks and Gophers. As I am sure most of you will agree, these two species are vastly different; Gophers almost never swim back down on their own, Quillbacks almost always do. So I fear there is bad science here that is leading to poor decisions.

There's more and it will take me some time to really dig into it. One other disturbing fact he related is that the entire Quillback population from Cape Mendocino to Pigeon Point is treated as one number. So regardless of what happened here in Mendocino, if the numbers from San Francisco look bad, we lose.

? ass/u/me... poor research methodology and/or inconclusive, nevertheless, poor decisions are made anyway or in an irrational manner for us fishers. This situation is not fun, but actually rather sad. And yes, I also have a degree in natural resources management... and $7.00 still get me a great beer at Wolf House Brewing Co like everyone else.

"I think I just want to go home now" - Forrest Gump....replaced with the words of Dr.Dave...I just want to go fishing now

I caught and released a Quillback at Fort Ross last year.
The thing that bothers me about these kind of decisions and regulations is the complete disregard for how it affects people and businesses.

It's sort of human nature to not be concerned about things that don't affect you. When they announced the closure for the North management area, I shrugged and thought "Well it sucks to be them, but it doesn't affect me."  - Oops.

As an example, I'm not a gun owner, and I would like to see some more restrictions on who can own what, but I do understand that people have interests and passions that differ from mine, and I shouldn't disregard those passions completely.

I caught and released a Quillback at Fort Ross last year.
The thing that bothers me about these kind of decisions and regulations is the complete disregard for how it affects people and businesses.

It's sort of human nature to not be concerned about things that don't affect you. When they announced the closure for the North management area, I shrugged and thought "Well it sucks to be them, but it doesn't affect me."  - Oops.

As an example, I'm not a gun owner, and I would like to see some more restrictions on who can own what, but I do understand that people have interests and passions that differ from mine, and I shouldn't disregard those passions completely.

Rockfish is closing, might as well start the winter gun thread now.

I caught and released a Quillback at Fort Ross last year.
The thing that bothers me about these kind of decisions and regulations is the complete disregard for how it affects people and businesses.

It's sort of human nature to not be concerned about things that don't affect you. When they announced the closure for the North management area, I shrugged and thought "Well it sucks to be them, but it doesn't affect me."  - Oops.

As an example, I'm not a gun owner, and I would like to see some more restrictions on who can own what, but I do understand that people have interests and passions that differ from mine, and I shouldn't disregard those passions completely.

This is where the saying comes from: "Things will need to get worse before they get better." The activist government here has run out of good causes, and their favorite tool is restrictions. So all they have left is restricting nice things because they need a cause like they need oxygen. Until the nice things that more people like are affected, they'll be more than happy to turn a blind eye when someone else's nice thing gets restricted.

The whale/crab trap thing is a great example. Protections have been successful and populations are up, resulting in the occasional entanglement. This is evidence of a thriving whale population, but it is turned into a reason to restrict crabbing, something people have done for many many years, because it is a public display (virtue signaling) of exercising power over others "for a good cause," whether it's helpful or worth the negative effects or not. Same principle was in effect during Covid times. Publicly and frequently show you "care" over and over again with regulation updates regardless of who you hurt in the process because you need to constantly affirm what team you're on.

These public displays are now the norm and it's impossible and silly to separate the policies in Cali from the voting habits of the people here, who get off on restricting the activities of others in a public, visible manner. A Whole Foods store nearby has a sign that says "More than __ items have been banned from this store." I know we're supposed to assume they were banned for some "good" reason, but that reason isn't even mentioned. The culture is that banning is always good, and the sign really captured it.

I emailed the director at CDFW and got this generic response they sent to multiple people. The data they referenced for the quillback is not recent and from 2021. https://www.pcouncil.org/documents/2021/12/status-of-quillback-rockfish-sebastes-maliger-in-u-s-waters-off-the-coast-of-california-in-2021-using-catch-and-length-data-december-2021.pdf/

Hi Michael,
 
Thank you for sharing your concern regarding the in-season changes for the Nearshore Groundfish Fishery. Groundfish regulations are established in cooperation with the federal government through the Pacific Fishery Management Council (PFMC) and with significant input from stakeholders like you. Using the best scientific information available from recent population assessments, the status of quillback rockfish throughout California is in severe decline.   
 
To help protect quillback, 2023 regulations included a 1-fish sub-bag limit, a shortened season length, and allowing fishing at deeper depths for the first time in two decades in an effort to spread fishing effort away from the nearshore waters where quillback rockfish are most commonly found. These measures (in combination) were intended to reduce the overall catch of quillback while still allowing for fishing opportunities for other species of groundfish.
 
Unfortunately, catch of quillback rockfish continued and the harvest limits, including the Overfishing Limit, has been exceeded, with more catch expected if additional changes to regulations were not taken. When anglers fish for nearshore rockfish, it is impossible to know which species might be caught. Minimizing catch of one species, like quillback, often requires closing fishing in areas and depths where other groundfish are found. 
 
Commercial retention has been prohibited and any further consideration of closures or depth changes for commercial fisheries will take place at the upcoming September Council meeting.
 
If you would like to get involved with recreational groundfish regulations in your management area, we highly recommend talking with your local sportfishing representatives from the Pacific Fishery Management Council’s (PFMC) Groundfish Advisory Subpanel to see how you can get involved. For more information on the process, including how to get involved, visit the following websites:   
 
PFMC (pcouncil.org)  
 
PFMC – How to Get Involved  
 
For details on how and why the decision to close nearshore fishing was made, see CDFW’s Quillback Rockfish In-Season Informational Briefing. For more information on groundfish management and recreational groundfish regulations you can check out CDFWs Groundfish Website and CDFWs Summary of Recreational Groundfish Fishing Regulations webpage. If you have additional questions and would like more clarification, please feel free to contact me.
 
Sincerely,
Wildlife Ask Marine
 

Thanks Michael. That's really helpful. I wish the had better outreach and forewarning to the angling population about these decisions.
I also think there must be other forms of management rather than a complete shutdown. Huge schools of blue rockfish out there.

It would be interesting to see if a consideration for long leader gear would be given. Might be a bit of a hassle in the kayak, but totally doable and it would target the midwater fish while leaving the bottom dwellers alone.

https://myodfw.com/articles/offshore-longleader-gear