CDFW Considers CaliHali Limit Reduction

I’ve thought about this over the last few years. Do we really think the recreational fishing is causing the decline in fish? Or would it be more likely that commercial fishing is the main contributing factor here?

I do believe that recreational fishing should be regulated such that we have sustainable and thriving populations of all the native species we have on this coast. I also think that if we just focus on putting more restrictions on recreational take while commercial- both domestic and international- continue to overfish the ocean we’re fighting a losing fight and ignoring the elephant in the room.

Am I off here or missing something? I realize there are nuances to the halibut issue with them using the bay to spawn which is very accessible to our everyday Rec fisher.

I’ve thought about this over the last few years. Do we really think the recreational fishing is causing the decline in fish? Or would it be more likely that commercial fishing is the main contributing factor here?

I do believe that recreational fishing should be regulated such that we have sustainable and thriving populations of all the native species we have on this coast. I also think that if we just focus on putting more restrictions on recreational take while commercial- both domestic and international- continue to overfish the ocean we’re fighting a losing fight and ignoring the elephant in the room.

Am I off here or missing something? I realize there are nuances to the halibut issue with them using the bay to spawn which is very accessible to our everyday Rec fisher.

Regarding California halibut, I don't think international commercial boats are a factor. Also, according to CDFW, commercial and recreational take in 2019 were almost the same. See the link and screen grab. I think it's naive to assume that recreational fishing has no effect. Look at how many of us there are. As individuals we can certainly say, "well I don't make a difference, I'm just one person." But as a whole, we make up a LOT of fishermen. We should be proactive and support protective measures for our fish. Gathering data and science to support it could take years and might be too late by then.

Best time to tighten regs is 10 years ago. 2nd best time is now.

https://marinespecies.wildlife.ca.gov/california-halibut/false/

I made a comment about commercial fishing as being a big problem. One issue is the more they catch, the lower the price goes, so they have to take more to make more. Case in point before commercial dungeness crab was allowed, dungeness crab was expensive, maybe 40.00 a lb, after the season opened up the price dropped quickly, as low as 5.00 lb. So the more they catch, the lower the price and the more they need to catch to make money. The lower the price the more people they need to buy the bounty, so the catch is sold to others outside of the catch area, AKA globalization. This is true with all fish caught so really it leads to overfishing to make more profit. I also agree with recreational limits, when I was fishing halibut on the pier, I stopped with my first fish while other on the pier caught their limit and then gave fish away as there was no room in their freezer. I also met people who bragged about catching over 30 halibut in a season and gave most away. I think it is time to start really treating these species as a valued resource a keep a balance in the sport we enjoy and the food WE eat, we may loose them.

I also met people who bragged about catching over 30 halibut in a season and gave most away. I think it is time to start really treating these species as a valued resource a keep a balance in the sport we enjoy and the food WE eat, we may loose them.

Yeah, I hate that shit. People seem to forget that this isn't a stocked fish pond. These are wild animals that are trying to survive and reproduce, and fishing for them interrupts that process. I'm not saying we should stop fishing for them, but catching-and-releasing after limiting, or continuing to target fish after your freezer is full just to give them away should be discouraged, or even outlawed (maybe it already is?).

Those would be difficult regs to enforce, therefore, I propose we keep it simple. Reduce the bag limit, and put some restrictions on gear, like barbless hooks. Maybe even require rubber landing nets.

Good! I hope this happens. Better to be pro-active about this.

Two halibut is plenty amid a growing population of fishermen. I'm going to write a letter before the May 17th meeting encouraging barbless hooks as well.

Actually the the number of fishermen in California has been on the decline. Over 2 million in the 70s, and down to a little under 1 million last year. The was a small bump up in the beginning of Covid but the numbers didn’t stick. Once our numbers get low enough the anti fishing/hunting groups will put an end to it. Here are the the statistics on license sales over the years:  https://wildlife.ca.gov/Licensing/Statistics

I don't think it is the number of fisherman that determine the overall catch but it is the efficiency most anglers have now. GPS mapping , color depth finders, the ability to mark and return to spots. In the past, offshore fishing depended on reading rock outcroppings, the color of water, and accepting that current with fog would push you off a hotspot into dead zones and one had a hard time re-locating where the fish were. We have entered the electronic era and it is easier to catch fish so yes, reduce limits to whatever makes fishing sustainable.

Wuz at my local tackle shop and the guy there said limits had already been cut to 2 fish. I see nothing on DFW reg site. Any intel??

I don't think it is the number of fisherman that determine the overall catch but it is the efficiency most anglers have now. GPS mapping , color depth finders, the ability to mark and return to spots. In the past, offshore fishing depended on reading rock outcroppings, the color of water, and accepting that current with fog would push you off a hotspot into dead zones and one had a hard time re-locating where the fish were. We have entered the electronic era and it is easier to catch fish so yes, reduce limits to whatever makes fishing sustainable.

Plus one. Today if a fisherman is on a hot bite and conditions are just perfect he can pull the cell phone out of the pocket and relay that information to a friend or family member and from that friend or family member it gets passed on again to a couple more people in the blink of an eye.
In the not so long ago past you would have to wait till you were at a payphone to relay that information which could be at the end of that day's fishing or the next morning .
Today everything's real time kind of like watching the news it is not recorded from a couple hours ago or from yesterday like it was 25 or 30 years ago.

Good! I hope this happens. Better to be pro-active about this.

Two halibut is plenty amid a growing population of fishermen. I'm going to write a letter before the May 17th meeting encouraging barbless hooks as well.

Actually the the number of fishermen in California has been on the decline. Over 2 million in the 70s, and down to a little under 1 million last year. The was a small bump up in the beginning of Covid but the numbers didn’t stick. Once our numbers get low enough the anti fishing/hunting groups will put an end to it. Here are the the statistics on license sales over the years:  https://wildlife.ca.gov/Licensing/Statistics

I don't know. I'd wager that the Bay Area fishing population has increased. The kayak fishing fleet has exploded in the last few years. Not only are parking lots crowded now, but the water is crowded. You can't troll in a straight line anymore without bumping into other kayaks. It wasn't this way 10 or more years ago. 

I don't think it is the number of fisherman that determine the overall catch but it is the efficiency most anglers have now. GPS mapping , color depth finders, the ability to mark and return to spots. In the past, offshore fishing depended on reading rock outcroppings, the color of water, and accepting that current with fog would push you off a hotspot into dead zones and one had a hard time re-locating where the fish were. We have entered the electronic era and it is easier to catch fish so yes, reduce limits to whatever makes fishing sustainable.

Plus one. Today if a fisherman is on a hot bite and conditions are just perfect he can pull the cell phone out of the pocket and relay that information to a friend or family member and from that friend or family member it gets passed on again to a couple more people in the blink of an eye.
In the not so long ago past you would have to wait till you were at a payphone to relay that information which could be at the end of that day's fishing or the next morning .
Today everything's real time kind of like watching the news it is not recorded from a couple hours ago or from yesterday like it was 25 or 30 years ago.

Everyone should read The Unnatural History of the Sea by Callum Roberts. In it he discusses how as fish have become harder to catch, our fishing methods have become more efficient, so we still catch (more or less) the same numbers of fish even though populations are declining, leaving us unaware of the damage we are doing to our fisheries. He also covers "shifting baselines," the phenomenon by which we normalize declining fish populations so much that we've forgotten how productive our fisheries were 10, 20, 50, 100 years ago, etc. It's very interesting. Highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Unnatural-History-Sea-Callum-Roberts/dp/1597265772/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=241643588059&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031954&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15461084735029071704&hvtargid=kwd-4045349625&hydadcr=3233_10393018&keywords=the+unnatural+history+of+the+sea&qid=1681648740&s=books&sr=1-1#customerReviews

I don't think it is the number of fisherman that determine the overall catch but it is the efficiency most anglers have now. GPS mapping , color depth finders, the ability to mark and return to spots. In the past, offshore fishing depended on reading rock outcroppings, the color of water, and accepting that current with fog would push you off a hotspot into dead zones and one had a hard time re-locating where the fish were. We have entered the electronic era and it is easier to catch fish so yes, reduce limits to whatever makes fishing sustainable.

Plus one. Today if a fisherman is on a hot bite and conditions are just perfect he can pull the cell phone out of the pocket and relay that information to a friend or family member and from that friend or family member it gets passed on again to a couple more people in the blink of an eye.
In the not so long ago past you would have to wait till you were at a payphone to relay that information which could be at the end of that day's fishing or the next morning .
Today everything's real time kind of like watching the news it is not recorded from a couple hours ago or from yesterday like it was 25 or 30 years ago.

Everyone should read The Unnatural History of the Sea by Callum Roberts. In it he discusses how as fish have become harder to catch, our fishing methods have become more efficient, so we still catch (more or less) the same numbers of fish even though populations are declining, leaving us unaware of the damage we are doing to our fisheries. He also covers "shifting baselines," the phenomenon by which we normalize declining fish populations so much that we've forgotten how productive our fisheries were 10, 20, 50, 100 years ago, etc. It's very interesting. Highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Unnatural-History-Sea-Callum-Roberts/dp/1597265772/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=241643588059&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031954&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15461084735029071704&hvtargid=kwd-4045349625&hydadcr=3233_10393018&keywords=the+unnatural+history+of+the+sea&qid=1681648740&s=books&sr=1-1#customerReviews

First hand accounts of explorers, merchants and pirates as a means to support reserves…….sounds legit. 

A little counterpoint and food for thought

First of three short talks by fisheries scientist Ray Hilborn



There are more recent discussions with him but the relevant parts are all there in that original series

There's a thing that unfolded roughly concurrent w the mlpa that's never got enough airtime

In science circles it was referred to as the Worm-Hilborn clash - basically Ray Hilborn called bullshit on Boris Worm's predictions of the apocalyptic collapse of world fish stocks by 2040(?) and proposed that they collaborate on a study/assessment of global fish stocks

Conclusions of the study that resulted were dramatically less pessimistic than Worm's original claims. One locally relevant one was that California was amongst the three best managed fisheries in the world(conclusion reached pre-MLPA)

Makes for a note of irony that Worm's name is at the top of the study that debunked his own claims

But even if that original claim is no longer mentioned explicitly by the sylvia earle ted danson jp club the mood remains. During the mlpa i spoke with numerous people on the pro mlpa side and never had the impression it even mattered to them (Likewise studies on existing mpas around the world that showed lackluster ecosystem benefits and catastrophic impacts on local economies)

Whatever effect it had on Worm's reputation i doubt his career suffered any for it

Same cant be said for the careers of many others

I haven't looked into this myself, but it seems Hilborn is fraught with controversy himself.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/12/477827180/fisheries-scientist-becomes-latest-target-of-activist-s-records-requests

I think we need to be wary of more punch cards and more complicated regulations. I think the limit of 2 is a good idea, looking at how the halibut numbers suffered after the previous salmon closure. And maybe let that go back up to 3 if the fishing proves sustainable.
But maybe a more limited SF Bay season would also help spawning fish.
I don't think carpeting the decks of party boats with halibuts looks very sustainable.

I think we need to be wary of more punch cards and more complicated regulations. I think the limit of 2 is a good idea, looking at how the halibut numbers suffered after the previous salmon closure. And maybe let that go back up to 3 if the fishing proves sustainable.
But maybe a more limited SF Bay season would also help spawning fish.
I don't think carpeting the decks of party boats with halibuts looks very sustainable.

I agree, this looks excessive.